Episode 21

₿HS021: The Wild Life of Unschooling

SHOW TOPICS:  life-long parent-child bonds, unschooling FUD, filling your own emotional cup

Unschooling can build incredible, life-long parent-child bonds.  You trust them.  They trust you.  Give your kids a loving, respectful and happy home.

Parents may have to de-school themselves.  There is a lot of FUD about unschooling.  Unschooling is the opposite of being lazy and locking kids up.  It’s about getting active and having a network, a caring community.  There’s a balance.  Kids are free to explore and choose their own path, but parents are there to guide.  It’s not a completely hands-off experience.

IN THIS EPISODE, YOU'LL LEARN:

  • Alex’s background and inspiration for taking self-custody of her son’s education
  • She left Germany as a single Mom and without a specific plan other than she knew they had to leave
  • Alex’s ideas of what people who can’t homeschool, e.g., in Germany
  • There are certain countries around Germany that way more relaxed when it comes to homeschool so if you’re living on the border you can send them there instead.
  • West River Academy was another option Alex found to be very helpful for unschooling families
  • Clarifying the FUD … “Unschooling” means kids have a choice, including going to school.  Also, parents do set boundaries.
  • Kids learn because they need something in life, e.g., basic math skills.
  • Kids learn how to learn.  Then they can apply this skill to other areas and other problems.
  • Alex’s son has a variety of coaches, e.g.,  at his boxing / MMA club.
  • Unschooling is the opposite of being lazy and locking kids up.  It’s about getting active and having a network, a caring community. 
  • Tali discusses a letter she wrote to herself when her first-born was an infant.
  • Contrast between Alex’s German background and Tali’s Chinese background leads to some fun back-and-forth.
  • There’s a balance in un-schooling.  Kids are free to explore and choose their own path, but parents are there to guide.  It’s not a completely hands-off experience.  
  • Not everyone you know, friends or family, will understand what you’re doing.  The most important thing is that the kids feel loved.
  • For Alex, the most important thing was letting go of her fear and programming … to de-school herself.
  • She recommends self-discovery activities and habits.  The more you love yourself, the more you trust yourself, the better it is for your kids.  Fill your own cup.
  • Reach out to other moms if you’re considering homeschooling or unschooling.  

ALEX’S SOCIALS

RESOURCES MENTIONED IN THE SHOW:

HAPPY TO HELP:

  • Tali's Twitter @OrangeHatterPod
  • Scott's Twitter @ScottLindberg93
  • Scott's nostr npub19jkuyl0wgrj8kccqzh2vnseeql9v98ptrx407ca9qjsrr4x5j9tsnxx0q6
  • Free Market Kids' Twitter @FreeMarketKids
  • Orange Pill App @FreeMarketKids
  • Free Market Kids' games including HODL UP https://www.freemarketkids.com/collections/games

WAYS TO SUPPORT:

We are essentially our own sponsors and are so grateful for all of you who support this show.  Thank you!

STANDING RESOURCE RECOMMENDATIONS:

Mentioned in this episode:

Aleia Free Market Kids Full

Transcript
Alex:

they learn how to walk without the government, they learn everything,

2

:

I mean, he's speaking two languages

fluently, he's now learning English,

3

:

but because he wants to do it, not

because I push him to do anything,

4

:

so unschooling is a lot about trust,

5

:

we need to break that stigma of we need

to be separated from our kids because

6

:

I think most of the kids really enjoy

being with mom and dad, see what they

7

:

are up to learning and all these things.

8

:

Tali: there are out people

out there who really question

9

:

what we do as homeschoolers.

10

:

And then when you say then also

unschooling on top of that, they're

11

:

like, what the heck are you doing then?

12

:

Alex: think about unschooling as

discovering your own soul path

13

:

the more I was able to let go, the

more he became creative, outgoing,

14

:

powerful in his way to explore.

15

:

So it's a lot of work, a lot

of work, but it's worth it.

16

:

Welcome Bitcoin homeschoolers.

17

:

I'm really excited to tell you about

today's episode telly and I had the

18

:

opportunity to sit down with Alex.

19

:

Alex is putting in the proof of

work when it comes to unschooling.

20

:

She's the host of the

podcast called wild life.

21

:

The unschooling podcast.

22

:

And we got into it.

23

:

We didn't always agree.

24

:

It was a lot of fun.

25

:

And I think because of that,

you're actually going to

26

:

get a lot more out of this.

27

:

So sit back and enjoy.

28

:

Tali: So hi, Alex.

29

:

Welcome to Bitcoin homeschoolers.

30

:

We are so excited to have you on the show.

31

:

We're going to spend a lot of time

talking about unschooling today.

32

:

So welcome.

33

:

Alex: Thank you so much for having me.

34

:

Scott: So

35

:

Tali: glad you're here.

36

:

Let's start by just diving a

little bit into your background.

37

:

What brought you to

homeschooling your child?

38

:

Can

39

:

Alex: That is a good question.

40

:

Um, it started the very first

second when I hold him fresh,

41

:

uh, hatched from the egg.

42

:

Um, I had the feeling like, okay, this

dude is, is not going to go to school.

43

:

I just had it in my, in my gut

somehow, but I didn't really believe.

44

:

what I was feeling.

45

:

So the time went on and he went to

a democratic kindergarten in Berlin,

46

:

where there were no rules whatsoever.

47

:

And the kindergarten teachers really

prepped me in what is coming next in,

48

:

in your journey and your kid's journey.

49

:

And I was always like, I

don't see him in school yet.

50

:

I don't see it.

51

:

And I was like, maybe in a couple

of years or something like that.

52

:

But then eventually the time came when

he needed to go to school in Germany.

53

:

There's a legal age from

something like that.

54

:

And, um, yeah, we visited 34 schools,

I think very free schools, like

55

:

democratic schools, uh, forest

schools, all these different things.

56

:

And with every school, there was

something that he didn't like.

57

:

And he, the, the sentence

he said the most was.

58

:

Is this slavery?

59

:

I want to go home.

60

:

And after like so many schools we visited,

I was like, dude, I feel the same.

61

:

I don't want to stay in that

country that I don't want to be in.

62

:

The weather's shit.

63

:

The people are always grumpy.

64

:

The school system sucks.

65

:

And seriously, I want to see the world

because we were used to travel a lot.

66

:

I was still studying and I was able to

be in Berlin three months, then travel.

67

:

And I didn't want to.

68

:

Give this, give this up for sure, because

it felt right for me to discover the

69

:

world and I then had the crazy idea

to, uh, how about we leave Germany?

70

:

I didn't have a plan yet.

71

:

I was just very sure I don't want

to go to jail for not bringing

72

:

my kid to school every morning.

73

:

So I was like, okay, let's sell

everything we, we have, let's give

74

:

everything away and let's start traveling.

75

:

And we traveled for quite some time.

76

:

And then I discovered, okay, if I keep on

traveling, I can avoid schooling at all.

77

:

And then I started homeschooling

because I'm a German teacher.

78

:

And I thought like, okay, now he has, has

to learn how to read and all these things.

79

:

And my kid was always so, um,

frustrated with me because I

80

:

was pushing him and pushing.

81

:

And then I.

82

:

Had a deep talk with myself and I

felt that, okay, I need to let go

83

:

and let go a bit, a little bit more.

84

:

And as there was no authority

coming to me, telling me, Oh,

85

:

now he has to go to school.

86

:

I was able to really, um, take a deep look

and say myself, what do I want for him?

87

:

And, uh, then I came across

that idea of unschooling.

88

:

I thought I invented it, but then I met

other families that are unschooling.

89

:

And I was like, dude,

this is the thing I love.

90

:

Um, I love the raw sense of, of living.

91

:

I like it.

92

:

I like this, uh, deepness of

discovering yourself and everything.

93

:

And I thought, okay, this is it.

94

:

I'm going to do that.

95

:

And I'm going to do it.

96

:

Um, way, no matter what people say.

97

:

And I got so much backlash from my family.

98

:

You can imagine, but, um,

this is how we ended up there.

99

:

Like no plan, just discovering

yourself, the world exploring.

100

:

Scott: I love it.

101

:

I love it.

102

:

Tell you, can I go first?

103

:

I know you have a lot of questions,

but okay, so Alex, one of the things

104

:

that's on my mind is the podcast

we did the episode prior to this.

105

:

Tali and I were attempting to answer

questions that we had gotten where

106

:

someone would say like in a, in

Fountain or something else, they'd say

107

:

it, it's, it's all well and good for

you guys, but what if you live in a

108

:

country where homeschooling is illegal?

109

:

And then there was also what

Tali and I talked about.

110

:

And even if you're in the U S with the

way things are with inflation, et cetera,

111

:

a lot of families, they need both incomes

to survive and homeschooling is not an

112

:

option for them, but the principles.

113

:

So, the principles that

we're talking about,

114

:

Tali: they

115

:

Scott: they do apply.

116

:

And when you and I first spoke, you

had a couple of ideas for people.

117

:

And since Tali and I were coming

at it from perspective, kind of a

118

:

theoretical perspective, I would

love someone who has actually been

119

:

there, actually went through it to

give their perspective on when you're

120

:

in a, when you're in a circumstance.

121

:

And then I think you also had

a couple of recommendations for

122

:

other people who might be in the

circumstance that you were in prior.

123

:

I'd love to hear your,

your thoughts on that.

124

:

Tali: This is illegal, and for

125

:

Alex: Yeah.

126

:

So first of all, with this, uh,

income thing, I'm a single mom.

127

:

So if I can do it, you can do it.

128

:

Everyone has a gift that,

uh, they can share online.

129

:

Every single one of us

is, is incredibly gifted.

130

:

And I need to say.

131

:

Even though I was still studying and I had

to be in university, I just took my kid.

132

:

He was baby when I, I think he

was two weeks old when I needed

133

:

to go back to university and

he was with me all the time.

134

:

So we need to break that stigma of we

need to be separated from our kids because

135

:

I think most of the kids really enjoy

being with mom and dad, see what they

136

:

are up to learning and all these things.

137

:

I was studying languages, Arabic,

Hindi, Hebrew, and um, a couple of.

138

:

Um, like his first sentences were actually

in Arabic because he was surrounded by

139

:

Arabic speaking people all the time.

140

:

So with this income thing, you can do it.

141

:

You can do it.

142

:

It's hard, but you can do it.

143

:

I didn't sleep for years

because I was working at night.

144

:

I was watching my kid at daytime,

still studying, traveling, all of that.

145

:

But if you really want to

do it, You're going to do it

146

:

because there's no other way.

147

:

I never felt like, uh, I had a choice.

148

:

I was just doing what was necessary

to, uh, keep my kid in safety.

149

:

Um, and this other thing, yeah, um,

I can speak for German, for Germany.

150

:

It's, it's a very, let's say, hairy

situation over there because you

151

:

end up in jail probably if you,

Unschool your kid or homeschool.

152

:

This idea is not really known.

153

:

And if you do it, you're already

like on the list of terrorist,

154

:

uh, people, I don't know.

155

:

So, um, there's actually a thing.

156

:

There are certain countries around

Germany that are way more relaxed

157

:

when it comes to homeschool.

158

:

And like I said, France,

Poland, I think as well.

159

:

And if you're living close to the border,

you can just send your kids to school

160

:

there and don't send them to school.

161

:

You know what I mean?

162

:

So there's always a thing you can,

yeah, you can dance around that stuff.

163

:

And of course you, if you are

like, if they get you, if they,

164

:

if they discover what you're

doing, then you have a problem.

165

:

But in the end, I don't know how, I

know so many families that are doing

166

:

this since, I don't know, years and

they are doing really good in that.

167

:

And there's a general

thing I can recommend.

168

:

It's, it's, uh, an

international school from the U.

169

:

S.

170

:

It's called West River Academy and

they cover All of that legal stuff

171

:

worldwide, almost worldwide, I think,

and this is what I can recommend.

172

:

If you still feel like you

need legal protection, then

173

:

just onboard your kids there.

174

:

They don't have to do any online stuff.

175

:

They can, but they don't have to.

176

:

And it's really the, for me, it

looks like the perfect option

177

:

to legalize what you're doing.

178

:

And they give you all the

records, transcripts, everything

179

:

you need for the government.

180

:

And on the other side, it's like a

huge community of unschooling families

181

:

that are connected through that school.

182

:

And it's giving you power and

energy to keep going with that.

183

:

And because it's not always easy

and we need that community, I guess.

184

:

So this is not only for your kids.

185

:

It's also for yourself.

186

:

Scott: that makes me more bullish

because obviously we're, Tali and I are

187

:

not spending a lot of time in Germany.

188

:

We just hear, Hey, this is illegal.

189

:

And for you to say that many

people are doing this, many people

190

:

are doing it quite successfully.

191

:

That makes me feel really bullish

and that there are resources out

192

:

there like you're describing.

193

:

I think that's really helpful.

194

:

Tali,

195

:

Tali: I just want to ask you to expand a

little bit on the concept of unschooling.

196

:

I think that's a really

confusing concept for people.

197

:

They when they think unschooling,

they think you're just letting

198

:

your kid do literally whatever

and you're not being responsible.

199

:

So can you explain a little bit?

200

:

Okay,

201

:

Alex: Yeah, it can mean

anything and everything.

202

:

So, um, unschooling doesn't mean

your kid can't go to school.

203

:

Unschooling means your kid has the choice

to do whatever feels right in that moment.

204

:

So if my kid tells me tomorrow,

okay, mom, I want to go to school,

205

:

then, um, Okay, do your thing, but

unschooling on the very root is to

206

:

set your kid free to to let him her

discover whatever feels right for them.

207

:

I always think about unschooling

as discovering your own soul

208

:

path because we all came here.

209

:

With a reason, with a mission, with a

vision, and this set your, this is giving

210

:

your kid the opportunity to really dive

into whatever this human being needs

211

:

to do on this planet, and of course

there are natural rules like everywhere.

212

:

Nature has rules.

213

:

So have I, because I'm a human

being and we are living together.

214

:

And if he's running around and

screaming all day, of course, this

215

:

is not happening in my household,

because I set the boundaries for that.

216

:

So I see it as, um, I let loose a lot

and I try to trust my kid as much as

217

:

possible in whatever is right for him.

218

:

Of course, if he's like gaming six months,

10 hours a day, this is something that I

219

:

need to address because then I see there's

an imbalance, but this is something they

220

:

are, um, I think they have the right

to express and to discover that for

221

:

themselves as well and do these mistakes.

222

:

And I don't want to compare it

to homeschooling or anything, but

223

:

we don't have no schedule at all.

224

:

I don't buy books that he needs to

go through or anything like that.

225

:

I do buy the stuff that he needs.

226

:

That's the finish line.

227

:

And if I don't have the

money, then there is no stuff.

228

:

And maybe he has to work for it.

229

:

Maybe he has to.

230

:

I don't know, ask his grandma, his auntie.

231

:

I don't know.

232

:

So he needs to figure out how to do stuff.

233

:

Actually.

234

:

If you need something really

expensive, that's not on me then.

235

:

Um, so I see him like he's a,

yeah, like almost grown up person.

236

:

He is self self sovereign.

237

:

I would say he is doing

whatever feels right for him.

238

:

And if he needs help, I'm there, but I'm

never like, Hey, dude, check this out.

239

:

You need to learn.

240

:

Sometimes I discover stuff that

I liked as a kid very, very much.

241

:

And that I know that helped me,

um, widening my perception of

242

:

reality and in the world in general.

243

:

And I'm like, Hey dude, I love that.

244

:

Maybe you will love it too.

245

:

And most of the times he's

like, nah, that's so stupid.

246

:

So in general, unschooling

for me is, um, trust.

247

:

Um, self responsible living on both sides

on every side of the family and just going

248

:

with the flow, really going with the flow

and de schooling yourself because all this

249

:

programming I had, I was putting it on my

kid because I wasn't able to unschool yet.

250

:

I was still like, Oh my

God, he's missing out.

251

:

I'm failing him.

252

:

But after now, I don't know,

six years of unschooling, I

253

:

can say he learned how to read.

254

:

By himself, one day he was just able

to read this is how it's, I think,

255

:

always been, I mean, they learn how to

walk without the government, they learn

256

:

everything, I mean, he's speaking two

languages fluently, he's now learning

257

:

English, but because he wants to do it,

not because I push him to do anything,

258

:

so unschooling is a lot about trust,

letting go and seeing the world through

259

:

your kid's eyes and learning a completely

new dimension of what is out there.

260

:

Scott: Okay,

261

:

Tali: so as a homeschooling mom, and

I didn't unschool, I was probably

262

:

the other extreme of that spectrum.

263

:

So I'm going to challenge you

with a few questions that I

264

:

think a lot of new homeschoolers

would have about unschooling.

265

:

So you mentioned that if your son

wanted to spend 10 hours a day

266

:

playing video games six months in

a row, you would then step in and

267

:

say, Hey, this is not productive.

268

:

If, so my question to you is, if

your son says, you know what, I am

269

:

just not interested in mathematics,

I don't care that 1 plus 1 equals

270

:

2, I don't care about multiplication

tables, are you saying that because

271

:

you're an unschooler, you would allow

him to graduate high school or enter

272

:

adulthood and never learn mathematics?

273

:

Alex: I couldn't care less if he, if

he wants to learn maths, but they learn

274

:

because they need it in life, you know,

this is the funny part of it, even

275

:

though I don't care, the world is caring

because they get feedback from the world.

276

:

And if they are gaming sooner or later,

they need to calculate certain things.

277

:

And it's way more complex.

278

:

than what I was expecting him

to, to be involved with at

279

:

this point of, um, at his age.

280

:

So, um, I don't care if he's interested.

281

:

He needs to do it because he

needs to do certain things.

282

:

And this gives me the relief of, it's

not a really, I'm not pushing him.

283

:

It's, it's a need.

284

:

It's a necessity for him to go to

certain, yeah, worlds, digital worlds.

285

:

He needs to.

286

:

Scott: I'm curious on that.

287

:

So he, he needs it for the, he's playing

with whoever he's playing with online.

288

:

It's very social as I understand it.

289

:

I'm not a video game guy.

290

:

And how do you support that?

291

:

Do you say here are,

292

:

Tali: I

293

:

Scott: I mean, it doesn't have to

be textbooks or YouTube or whatever,

294

:

but are you pointing him towards.

295

:

Algebra, or something else and say,

here are the things you can choose

296

:

from, or are you literally just

saying, no, no, no, go figure it out.

297

:

Like, how is he, like, when, when

that experience happens, like

298

:

the math experience, what is your

next step to help him with that?

299

:

Alex: So maybe I can give you an example.

300

:

One of the things I remember, he was

figuring out something in Minecraft.

301

:

He needs to push something.

302

:

This is.

303

:

So many times to get this and that stuff,

but it was some complex, uh, relay, like

304

:

I D I don't really, I don't really know.

305

:

It wasn't like, uh, I push that button

one time and I get one block of something.

306

:

It was a bit more complex.

307

:

And he was like, how

can I figure that out?

308

:

And I was like, okay, dude, you have

a Lego, so grab your Lego and just.

309

:

make it reality, like physical reality.

310

:

And then you, you grab, you, you

understand the complexity of what you're

311

:

doing there, actually in the digital

world, because you can always come

312

:

back to the physical world and apply

it to stuff you can actually feel.

313

:

Because I think feeling things.

314

:

Uh, and bonding with these things for

me personally is always a better way

315

:

to learn something if I have it in

front of me and not only in my head.

316

:

So every time he's coming to me

with something, I just try to

317

:

listen to my intuition and, um,

I don't really have a recipe.

318

:

So if he's coming to me with something,

I don't have no clue whatsoever.

319

:

I'm like, okay, you know what I think.

320

:

Park could know about that

or something like that.

321

:

So there's a huge community around us with

so many beautiful, intelligent people.

322

:

If I don't know, then someone else knows.

323

:

And most of the times he don't

even ask, he he's figuring it out.

324

:

And then he's presenting

me, uh, the result.

325

:

And sometimes he's sharing with

me his, his journey to the result.

326

:

Scott: So what I hear is, I'm thinking,

I'm comparing what you're describing

327

:

to what I think of as a public school.

328

:

Public school, I think of, it's very

Directional, the teacher or some

329

:

authority is going to say, here's

how, what your next steps are.

330

:

What you're describing is you're going

to need to figure out what, how to

331

:

teach yourself and learn how to learn.

332

:

And, and he can now apply that to the next

problem without even asking you, right?

333

:

So he's like, well, who do I know?

334

:

Is it my grandfather?

335

:

Is it somebody else who knows his

subject, but he's learning how to learn.

336

:

And.

337

:

Tali: help himself.

338

:

Would

339

:

Scott: that, would that be an

accurate, uh, way of describing that?

340

:

Alex: Yeah, I think pretty much.

341

:

Tali: I have more pushback.

342

:

Scott: Keep going, sweetie.

343

:

Keep going.

344

:

This is going to

345

:

be

346

:

Um, yeah,

347

:

Alex: it on.

348

:

No.

349

:

Tali: the concept of having

350

:

Scott: having

351

:

a

352

:

Tali: accelerating, learning

something because they've done

353

:

it before, they've been there

before versus you fumbling around.

354

:

Um, and I get the idea that in the

struggle of trying to solve your own

355

:

problem, you, you learn, but there's

also on the flip side of that, you can

356

:

save a lot of time and energy if someone

has done it and can teach it to you.

357

:

And so.

358

:

I guess my struggle is just in the trust

part that you seem really comfortable

359

:

with, probably because of my own

upbringing, but, um, having, having

360

:

witnessed the development of our four

kids and the, the vastly different

361

:

personalities that they have in terms

of self motivation, exploration, etc.

362

:

I guess I just really struggle with

the concept that just letting them go

363

:

Scott: is

364

:

Tali: okay.

365

:

Scott: Well, I'm really interested

in this, I'm going to kind of watch

366

:

you guys go back and forth on these

different, these different takes so

367

:

we can, we can all learn, but I, what

I'm hearing in this discussion is not

368

:

that there's not a coach, it's, it's

more that there's a coach when they

369

:

need the coach, sort of like when the

student is ready, the teacher presents

370

:

himself like we've talked about before.

371

:

That's what I hear as opposed to,

I'm letting my kid outside, and in

372

:

18 years, you know, he's on his own.

373

:

Like, I'm not hearing that.

374

:

Anyway, so

375

:

Tali: I understand.

376

:

I understand that he's not being neglected

because you know, you know what, you

377

:

know that stigma that people have.

378

:

With homeschoolers, they lock their kids

in the room and they call themselves

379

:

homeschoolers kind of thing and so, so

sort of along the same line, if people

380

:

think on schooling, it's almost like,

oh, these are just lazy parents who don't

381

:

want to do anything, just let their kids

do whatever they want, you know, I'm

382

:

And Playing the devil's advocate because

there are out people out there who really

383

:

question what we do as homeschoolers.

384

:

And then when you say homeschooling

on and then also unschooling on

385

:

top of that, they're like, what

the heck are you doing then?

386

:

You know what I'm saying?

387

:

Alex: True, true.

388

:

But you know what?

389

:

How am I learning?

390

:

Um, so I'm surrounded by a beautiful

community that is, um, really

391

:

into learning, like, Evolving when

it comes to permaculture to, uh,

392

:

healthy food and all these things.

393

:

So here's a huge community and

everyone has a gift and they are always

394

:

sharing it in workshops and so on.

395

:

And so this is natural for me at least

if I don't know something and I want

396

:

to know I'm asking a friend or i'm

asking someone who is actually Really

397

:

good in it and is, uh, doing workshops

or whatever, you know what I mean?

398

:

So what I see is that my kid is free

to do whatever and that he has a huge

399

:

pool of coaches that are there for him.

400

:

I mean, he is, for example,

really good in MMA.

401

:

So I can't teach him that because I'm

afraid of him because he's so big now

402

:

and if he's punching me, it really hurts.

403

:

So a couple of years ago, I told

him, dude, we can't fight anymore.

404

:

If you like to fight, you're going to

have to go to the boxing club and he's

405

:

doing it and he's enjoying his time there.

406

:

So there, he has a very strict,

um, environment there because

407

:

you can imagine learning how to

fight is not, uh, how you learn.

408

:

I don't know how to set up a Minecraft.

409

:

Serve at home with your mom.

410

:

It's something else.

411

:

So he has this broad, uh, diversity

of different coaches with different

412

:

learning styles and all of that.

413

:

And he loves it.

414

:

He loves it.

415

:

He loves the strict ones.

416

:

He loves the hippy dippy ones.

417

:

So he has actually a huge pool of

people who really feel responsible

418

:

for the kids that are here.

419

:

And that I like the most because the

people here, a lot of families are

420

:

unschooling or homeschooling, but

a lot of them are just unschooling.

421

:

Um, and they just have a

different approach to kids.

422

:

They see them as, yeah, very grown, very,

um, mature and very Yeah, I don't know.

423

:

It's very different from how I was

seen a child from my, my surroundings.

424

:

So, um, it's not so much

I'm being the lazy parent.

425

:

It's more or less a lot of organization.

426

:

Like, where are the kids now?

427

:

Where do they want to go?

428

:

Who can deliver what?

429

:

And these kind of things.

430

:

Most of the stuff they are,

like, organizing by themselves,

431

:

but still, there's someone You

can't go anywhere by foot here.

432

:

It's a very small island, and you

have to drive by car everywhere.

433

:

So, uh, it's always Some, someone who

needs to be there, who needs to be

434

:

with them and these kinds of things.

435

:

So it's, I think the opposite of

being lazy and locking them up.

436

:

It's about really getting active,

uh, having this network, having this

437

:

community, caring for the community

and the other people, because

438

:

you have to give something back.

439

:

My child has to give

something back as well.

440

:

You know, it's not like, it's not like he

has to give something back, like me, I'm a

441

:

grown, but the kids as well, they're, um,

really integrated in that society here.

442

:

So it is, I think, really the

opposite of locked up kids.

443

:

It's more or less like,

when are they going to come?

444

:

Come back home.

445

:

I have no clue.

446

:

They're always on the run.

447

:

They're always on the go.

448

:

They have plans and they

have beautiful plans.

449

:

And sometimes, yeah, they're

just sitting around sometimes

450

:

two or three days in a row.

451

:

And they're just painting and, and

drawing and these kinds of things.

452

:

But I see that as very, um,

Yeah, it's a necessity as well.

453

:

Um, so lazy, nobody here is lazy.

454

:

What I saw is the more I was able to

let go, the more he became creative,

455

:

outgoing, powerful in his way to explore.

456

:

So it's a lot of work, a lot

of work, but it's worth it.

457

:

Scott: Okay.

458

:

I just got to get, make sure I

got the okay from Tali that I

459

:

can keep, keep going on that one.

460

:

I, I, I feel like if we were together, we

would be talking for many hours on each

461

:

of these things, but there's so many, so

many things we should at least touch on.

462

:

Another one on the list today that

I wanted to get your point of view

463

:

on is something that, that said

bunny is very passionate about,

464

:

and that is the parent child bond.

465

:

And if you could comment on.

466

:

And I'd love to get your, if you

could share your experience, anything

467

:

that you're willing to share,

468

:

um, about what this experience has

been in terms of a parent child bond.

469

:

Alex: So I need to say, um, I was

very young when I had my child.

470

:

I was 23 and I was still super programmed.

471

:

I mean, I went to one of the

strictest schools in Germany.

472

:

It was a private something.

473

:

Then I studied for 10 years

and I really did my job great.

474

:

So I had a lot of programming,

a lot of stress and a lot of,

475

:

yeah, very German way of living.

476

:

Yeah.

477

:

I'm going to get up at six naturally.

478

:

Why not?

479

:

So, um, when I learned that you can

just skip all of that and be a very,

480

:

very happy kid, and I had a very,

let's say, stressful childhood.

481

:

So it was completely new for me to

discover what does a happy child need?

482

:

How does it look like?

483

:

What does it feel like to be that happy?

484

:

How does it feel like to be the

mom that provides the happy space?

485

:

Um, so what I learned and what I would.

486

:

Maybe do different now as I

would be so much more radical

487

:

right from the beginning.

488

:

It would be always about What does

my kid need and not one single

489

:

second about what does society

want from my kid or me as a mom?

490

:

I would like to delete that from

my past because uh, since I was

491

:

able to let go more more and more

the relationship between me and

492

:

my kid got Deeper and deeper.

493

:

It was always super deep because we

were, I was so, so close and I did

494

:

stuff very differently than normal.

495

:

Yeah.

496

:

I don't know.

497

:

Uh, people maybe.

498

:

So what I can say is having this much

trust in your child, your child is

499

:

giving you that trust back for sure.

500

:

And the respect you put in,

they, they, uh, you get it back.

501

:

And what I really love is that my kid.

502

:

Knows that this is a secure home.

503

:

He is funny.

504

:

He, he's able to cry.

505

:

He's able to be grumpy

and these kinds of things.

506

:

He's really able to let

all these emotions out.

507

:

I wasn't able to do that as a kid.

508

:

So what I see is unschooling gave

me the perfect opportunity to really

509

:

see the raw human being, the soul

that came here to discover life.

510

:

And I'm just providing whatever

he needs to, to go that way.

511

:

And of course there are struggles within

every relationship in with yourself, with

512

:

himself, each other, all these things.

513

:

But, um, I, I S I think

I can see that very.

514

:

And I'm very aware and I like that I see

every detail of that relationship growing

515

:

and deepening with every day practically.

516

:

So for me, a game changer

for myself as well.

517

:

It changed me completely as a,

as a human being completely.

518

:

Scott: Talia, maybe you can comment on

too, because that was one of your, I feel

519

:

like you and Alex had a similar experience

when you first looked at your first child.

520

:

You're like, I want, I'm the one

who's raising this person that I'm,

521

:

I'm the one that's going to have the

relationship with this, this other person.

522

:

Tali: I did.

523

:

I mean.

524

:

Hmm.

525

:

I held our first baby.

526

:

I was originally going to go back

to work and I decided I didn't want

527

:

her being raised by somebody else.

528

:

One big difference though in my

experience was I still remember

529

:

vividly a letter that I wrote to

our first born when she was born.

530

:

And I have a Chinese background

and you know the Confucius.

531

:

Philosophy of

532

:

Scott: the, the

533

:

Tali: parents are absolutely

and 100 percent responsible

534

:

for how their kids turn out.

535

:

So I felt 100 percent responsible

for exactly how she turns out.

536

:

How much of her potential she

expresses in her life was up to me.

537

:

So I wrote her this letter.

538

:

And I wrote in the letter that I

hope I can do my very best to bring

539

:

out to I bring out her potential

because I was the one responsible.

540

:

Now, actually, it's interesting because

I was talking to our girls recently

541

:

about that and I said, you know,

with what I know now, I would have

542

:

done things completely differently.

543

:

I would have written a different letter.

544

:

Because I realized now that it's not

my job to bring out their potential.

545

:

They have the potential that

they can express themselves.

546

:

So I wish I had known these principles

that Alex is expressing so eloquently.

547

:

And I think her son is very,

very lucky that she discovered

548

:

these principles so early.

549

:

Our kids endured at least the first half

550

:

Scott: of

551

:

Tali: or first two thirds of the

homeschooling journey was very

552

:

traditional because I really felt that

if they couldn't read very well, it

553

:

was my fault if they couldn't read.

554

:

Couldn't do math very well.

555

:

It was my fault and I would have failed

them if they didn't meet all of these

556

:

requirements that society has listed

as a capable human being and so The

557

:

reason I'm challenging you is because

I believe that there are a lot of

558

:

parents out there Today, thinking that

they are 100 percent responsible for

559

:

bringing out their children's potential.

560

:

That's why I'm challenging her

today so that we can learn more,

561

:

you know, from this point of view.

562

:

And I think there is a balance as well.

563

:

You're, you're letting him be free

and explore and choose his own path,

564

:

but you're also there to guide gently.

565

:

So it's not like it's a completely

hands off kind of thing.

566

:

It didn't sound like to me anyway,

um, you are gentle guiding.

567

:

Whereas The way that I was taught growing

up with a very traditional Chinese

568

:

background is you told your kids what

they should and shouldn't do and what

569

:

they should like and shouldn't like.

570

:

Like, everything is prescribed

for them, but that's our way of

571

:

expressing love because we're

responsible for their success.

572

:

Alex: I, like this a lot,

573

:

Scott: yeah, I actually, I like the,

I like having two different points

574

:

of view because if I'm a listener,

I'm, I'm just eavesdropping on these

575

:

two different perspectives and I can

pick whichever one I think relates to

576

:

whatever my circumstances are and I think

that's a really good way of bringing

577

:

out the the core principles the first

principle ideas of What it's like to to

578

:

basically self custody the education.

579

:

So so, um Yeah, I'm enjoying, I'm enjoying

580

:

the back and forth.

581

:

Tali: add also that what I'm

seeing now in hindsight, right?

582

:

Because we finished this journey and

you're still in the middle of it.

583

:

When I look back and I think through.

584

:

what our approach and

how the kids turned out.

585

:

And I'm specifically only

addressing the emotion side because

586

:

intellectually, academically, skill

wise, I mean, that's ever changing.

587

:

Like you said, you're

still learning today.

588

:

We're still learning today.

589

:

The knowledge part it's ever changing,

but emotion side that stays with you.

590

:

And what I see is that when we tell

our kids What they should and should

591

:

not do throughout their childhood,

especially the younger part of their

592

:

childhood They learn to distrust their

own feelings and their own decisions

593

:

and their own desires and that part I

wish I could say back so that respect

594

:

part like actually not respect You were

mentioning the word trust that you trust

595

:

him and therefore he trusts you back.

596

:

I think that's really really key and

Yeah, I just want to throw it out there

597

:

that that's the part that I wish I could

go back and fix because I want them

598

:

to know today that how they feel is

legitimate and how they desire what they

599

:

desire that's different from from what I

desire is also legitimate because they're

600

:

different people from me and Scott.

601

:

But it's hard to take that back

if you've already programmed it in

602

:

their mind when they were young.

603

:

Scott: All right, Alex, anything

you want to challenge Tali?

604

:

You can challenge Tali too if you want.

605

:

Like take this, if you got something

on your mind to keep going with that.

606

:

I don't know.

607

:

Alex: actually something I want to say,

because I think you, or what, I mean, I

608

:

don't know you, but my feeling is from

what, how you, um, you are with me, you

609

:

are very respectful, lovely people, so.

610

:

I think this is the most important

part that your kids are loved,

611

:

respected, and have a happy home,

and this is what you gave them.

612

:

And everything else is, is so not

important, so it doesn't matter.

613

:

They are, I think they are the perfect

human beings anyway, so don't worry

614

:

about that, because I think, um, we

idolize, make, Is it the right word?

615

:

Idolize?

616

:

Idealize?

617

:

I don't know.

618

:

Sometimes we tend to perfectionize

maybe the idea of other

619

:

people's, um, relationships

with their kids and everything.

620

:

But in the end, if I unschool, homeschool,

if they go to school, the very The most

621

:

important thing is if they are loved

and you did that, so everything's fine.

622

:

And I don't see that one thing is

better or different, blah, blah, blah.

623

:

Because I think we are all at the

point in our life where we need to be.

624

:

And we are all on our own journey as well.

625

:

We are parents, we are

growing, we are learning.

626

:

And I tell my kid all the

time, dude, I'm not perfect.

627

:

I have no clue.

628

:

Most of the times I'm lost.

629

:

So this is what we are doing.

630

:

And you need to go through that

with me because my parents were

631

:

always like, We are perfect.

632

:

You can't challenge us.

633

:

And I'm like, dude, challenge me,

please, because I'm not perfect.

634

:

I want to learn from you

because you are fresh here.

635

:

You are smarter than me.

636

:

You are healthy.

637

:

You weren't traumatized

by, by crazy people.

638

:

So please teach me what is in your

mind and, um, I always tell him, please

639

:

challenge my rules, break my rules.

640

:

I want you to be smart enough to

break my rules and, uh, to make me

641

:

feel like I need to, to reinvent

myself over and over again.

642

:

And if I say this today,

it might change tomorrow.

643

:

So, um, and I, I did so many.

644

:

crazy mistakes in this

10 years of raising him.

645

:

But what I do is always coming back like,

dude, I was a different person back then.

646

:

I'm so sorry, but this is how I was.

647

:

So deal with it.

648

:

If you need therapy afterwards,

okay, I'm going to pay for it.

649

:

But, uh, until now it looks

like, um, he had a quite happy

650

:

childhood compared to my childhood.

651

:

And this is what I wanted.

652

:

And I think if we're doing it

better than, than Yeah, I don't know

653

:

what we wanted to have as a child.

654

:

I mean, we always, I mean, everyone

has something they, they wish they

655

:

had in their childhood and I think.

656

:

Tali: it's actually really interesting

you said that because When I was growing

657

:

up, you know, despite the fact that

I was raised in the Chinese culture,

658

:

my parents were very, very hands off.

659

:

I had full freedom to

do whatever I wanted.

660

:

And I felt for whatever reason, I

interpreted that as I was put in a

661

:

disadvantage because My other friends

have parents who were like helicopter

662

:

parents, and they were always given

opportunities that I wanted that my

663

:

parents didn't provide because my parents

are like, go outside and play in the dirt.

664

:

You're fine, you know.

665

:

And so I was somewhat compensating

for that when I had my kids because

666

:

I was going to make sure they got

the guidance that I wish I had.

667

:

But going back to what you said before,

which is honestly, In the end, all

668

:

that matters is they know you love

them and that they matter to you and

669

:

everything else will work themselves

out if they need therapy, then they need

670

:

Alex: we gonna pay for it.

671

:

Scott: need, they don't need therapy.

672

:

Actually, what,

673

:

what you guys have both described is

you're, you're building a lifelong

674

:

relationship with your child.

675

:

It's completely opposite of what the,

the people who want to control your kids

676

:

want to do, or they want to separate.

677

:

The

678

:

parents from the child.

679

:

They want to be able to control

them and tell them how to think.

680

:

It's, it's the whole Communist

Manifesto type of mentality.

681

:

And, regardless of what your spectrum is,

from unschooling to homeschooling to, to,

682

:

to whatever, the bottom line is, and I,

I'm giving you my, how I hear you guys

683

:

speaking, you guys, regardless of whether

you've made, you've made mistakes, you,

684

:

there is a very clear message to the

kids that you care, that if something is

685

:

Something happens that's not right because

that's what happens with, with humans.

686

:

Things happen.

687

:

It's okay.

688

:

We can work through it.

689

:

We can trust each other.

690

:

We, we love each other.

691

:

We're here for each other.

692

:

That is an amazing thing.

693

:

And I, and I, I'm very confident

that's not what most students in

694

:

today's structured environments

and whatever, whichever country,

695

:

I

696

:

think that's probably a huge

piece of what's missing.

697

:

And, and it's like an intentional divide

between kids and their, their parents that

698

:

is built into the way structured schools

are, are designed and at least run today.

699

:

And I'm not accusing all teachers

of being bad and all these other

700

:

things, but I'm just saying overall,

it has tended that direction.

701

:

And you guys have.

702

:

Done something really powerful.

703

:

That's going to last a

lifetime with the kids.

704

:

And that's pretty cool.

705

:

So, you know, hats off to

both of you because it is a

706

:

lot of, it is a lot of work.

707

:

So

708

:

Alex: It

709

:

Tali: is it is very tough,

especially if you're very, very

710

:

close, even physically, because

you're you can't escape an argument.

711

:

Scott: You can't escape, but I'll tell

you what the other thing is too, though.

712

:

You do have, and you touched on this

earlier, Alex, and that is not everybody

713

:

that you are friends with and not

everybody who's in your family will

714

:

understand what you're doing or why.

715

:

And Can you just touch on that?

716

:

What has it been like?

717

:

Alex: Oh,

718

:

yes.

719

:

Scott: could be anything from vaccines

to the schooling to, to, to whatever.

720

:

There's a, there's one thing, even

when you work through your own doubts

721

:

about what you're doing, you've had

a bad day with whatever it is, and

722

:

then along comes the family, right?

723

:

So, what has your experience been like,

uh, with that, in that dimension, the

724

:

family relationships, maybe even friends

that don't understand what you're doing?

725

:

Alex: So regarding my family, I need to

say it's easy for me because I wanted to

726

:

do the exact opposite of what they did.

727

:

So every time they are criticizing me,

I'm like, yes, I'm doing the right thing.

728

:

And I'm going to do it much more

like, I don't know, radical even more

729

:

now that I know that you hate it.

730

:

Um, because I felt like, first

of all, I have an intuition and

731

:

that is guiding me very clearly.

732

:

Secondly, if you hate it, that

tells me that I should do it.

733

:

And this was a recipe in my

head and turned out perfectly.

734

:

It is the perfect way, but

I need to say, um, yeah.

735

:

Huge parts of my family are vaccinated,

and I just try to not talk about

736

:

these kind of topics, because

I'm the weird one in the family.

737

:

We're not vaccinated, we don't go to

school, we don't do that, we don't do

738

:

this, and we don't eat crab, we don't go

to McDonald's, and these kind of things.

739

:

Um, but And the good part is

that my family, they are all very

740

:

lovely people, very, very lovely.

741

:

And the most important part

is the love between us.

742

:

It's not if you are vaccinated.

743

:

If not, it's not, if you're

going to school, it's all

744

:

about, we love each other.

745

:

We support each other.

746

:

And of course they have critical

questions, but, um, it got less and less.

747

:

And I, um, sometimes I

told them just to fuck off.

748

:

Like this is my life.

749

:

You don't have no clue.

750

:

Come here and visit me.

751

:

You can fly this 6, 000 kilometers

to, to this little island and

752

:

you see it with your own eyes.

753

:

We were building a school here,

like an unschooling school.

754

:

We have the best community.

755

:

So please come over and then

tell me I do worse than you

756

:

did as parents and impossible.

757

:

It's impossible.

758

:

So I love my parents very, very

much, but I have, I have stuff,

759

:

you know, that, um, I could.

760

:

I could, uh, like if we want to play

that game, who's the better parent?

761

:

Turns out it's me.

762

:

So, um, friends, I don't have friends who

are not into what I'm doing because of

763

:

course, sometimes people are like, um,

for example, my best friend, she's way

764

:

more strict, she's unschooling, but she's.

765

:

So strict when it comes to

gaming and these kinds of things.

766

:

And she's always like, they aren't

doing too much over there at your place.

767

:

They're always like you are to

lose and these kinds of things.

768

:

So we have an active discussion and the

rules at my place are different than

769

:

the rules at her place and the kids know

that, and we respect these boundaries.

770

:

And that's it.

771

:

Um, I don't really want anything to do

with people who are not into what I'm

772

:

doing, not because I can't stand it,

but because it doesn't bring me further.

773

:

I need people who are way more extreme

than me, way, way more crazy about

774

:

the stuff I'm already crazy about.

775

:

I need passionate people who want

to change the, the narrative, the

776

:

narrative, and they want to change

anything and everything basically.

777

:

So um.

778

:

I'm very, very lucky that I have a

very strong family and a very strong,

779

:

um, friend circle around me that is

really pushing me, um, challenging,

780

:

challenging me day to day, basically,

and also supporting me with everything.

781

:

So, um, I think this is the perfect thing.

782

:

And this understanding, I need to

say my grandparents, they're very,

783

:

very traditional and very strict.

784

:

So, um, They raised me basically, um,

I have a very deep relationship with my

785

:

grandparents, but they never wronged me.

786

:

They never did something stupid

when I was a child, even now

787

:

they are still perfect with me.

788

:

There has never been one single

situation where I was like,

789

:

why did you do that to me?

790

:

Never.

791

:

So my grandparents, they never really

understood, but they trusted my intuition

792

:

and the trust that they put in me.

793

:

Um, that changed our whole relationship.

794

:

It was always full of love and trust.

795

:

Um, but now they look up to me a

little bit because they see, like, I

796

:

raised the best kid in this family.

797

:

And they say it to me, like, this

is the best, the last hope we

798

:

have for this family is your kid.

799

:

And, um, the support that

grew out of that experience.

800

:

like the mutual experience of

respecting each other's ways of life.

801

:

Um, it's crazy.

802

:

Um, and I'm so grateful and so lucky.

803

:

I can't even put that in words, but this

is the biggest gift someone can, can give

804

:

you like respecting the way you live.

805

:

And maybe even though they don't

understand it, trust, support,

806

:

and these kinds of things.

807

:

So through that, I am able

to give that to my kid.

808

:

Um, It's the best feeling ever.

809

:

Scott: How does, uh, I'll go a

little bit sideways on you on this.

810

:

Do they associate you with Bitcoin

as part of you being kind of

811

:

out there with unschooling or

is it like a separate, like, how

812

:

does, how does that fit into this?

813

:

How does Bitcoin fit into this?

814

:

Alex: I think Bitcoin for them is, um, one

part of my very, very insane lifestyle.

815

:

Um, they don't really get it.

816

:

I try to explain it to

them once in a while.

817

:

And they're like, Oh,

you can invest for me.

818

:

I give you the money and these kinds

of things, because I think a tiny part

819

:

in, in their heart is telling them to,

yeah, try it out, try it out, try it out.

820

:

But in the end, this is all

part of Alex crazy world.

821

:

Um, We don't touch that.

822

:

It's, it's her, whatever

she's doing over there.

823

:

So,

824

:

Scott: you get into, how

did you get into Bitcoin?

825

:

I, I've got like all kinds

of Bitcoin questions.

826

:

How did you get into it?

827

:

How are you talking

about it with your son?

828

:

And then once we, we cover that, then

maybe we can kind of go into what

829

:

kind of projects you're working on and

your podcasts and that kind of stuff.

830

:

But, um, I'm curious on it is, this

is the Bitcoin homeschooling podcast.

831

:

So what's your, you know, what's your

Bitcoin story and how does it fit in?

832

:

From an education standpoint.

833

:

Alex: I discovered Bitcoin in 2015

because I was looking for something

834

:

where I could make money with.

835

:

And I had a look at stocks and

all these things and it felt off.

836

:

I didn't want anything to

do with just my intuition.

837

:

I had no clue about finance or

whatever, but I was sure I had, I

838

:

think, 500 euros and I wanted to invest.

839

:

So I somehow stumbled up, uh, upon

Bitcoin and I immediately understood,

840

:

okay, this is something else.

841

:

Somehow I need to know more.

842

:

It was like, it was pulling

me into that rabbit hole.

843

:

I did, I didn't know why, but.

844

:

I was very lucky that this happened.

845

:

So, um, I invested without really

knowing what is going, what was going on.

846

:

A couple of months or years

later, I sold my coins.

847

:

I could have been a millionaire

by now, but I'm not because

848

:

I wanted to have some gains.

849

:

Like, I don't know how many.

850

:

Couple of hundreds.

851

:

Very stupid, very stupid.

852

:

But, um, after I sold my coins,

I actually felt so stupid.

853

:

Uh, I sold it to travel, I think.

854

:

So this is okay for me because

traveling is super important.

855

:

And through that financial freedom it gave

me as a very, very young mom, um, I was

856

:

able to dig deeper into what is Bitcoin?

857

:

Why is it so attractive?

858

:

Like, what, why is it so, It

was like, uh, it was pulling

859

:

me really, um, this passion.

860

:

I don't, I didn't know where it was

coming from, but, um, this helped me to

861

:

discover a lot about finance, the system.

862

:

Uh, I always hated the government.

863

:

My parents always thought I'm ending up

being a terrorist or something like that.

864

:

So I always had this tense, uh, this,

this tend to, to be different or to, To

865

:

not be okay with a government that is

telling me how to behave, what to think,

866

:

what to do, and these kind of things.

867

:

And with Bitcoin, I was like,

dude, this is exactly what I

868

:

was looking for finance wise.

869

:

And then I was, um, I met so

many cool Bitcoiners on the way.

870

:

And I was like, dude, these are the

coolest people on this planet somehow.

871

:

And all of them just understood me.

872

:

And this I never had that in my life

because I was always the weird one.

873

:

And in this community I was

like, okay, everyone is like me.

874

:

This is beautiful.

875

:

I can just be myself.

876

:

I don't have to think about what I'm

saying or, um, anything like that

877

:

because they were way more into that.

878

:

at that point than me.

879

:

So they were teaching

me, they were guiding me.

880

:

And I really enjoyed that, um,

yeah, falling into that rabbit hole.

881

:

And it led me to millions of things.

882

:

And then I understood, okay,

who is funding the financial

883

:

system and all these things.

884

:

And I was like, dude, I'm so happy.

885

:

I discovered Bitcoin.

886

:

And this is exactly how I tell

my kid about all these things.

887

:

Uh, of course he sees me working, uh,

On Bitcoin with Bitcoin talking about

888

:

it paying with it and he had a Bitcoin

wallet before he had a traditional

889

:

bank account So he knew he was building

nodes a couple of years ago with me So

890

:

he knows way better about Bitcoin than

the normal financial system, but he

891

:

is pretty open minded and cool So he

wants to know why do Don't we trust the

892

:

normal money and these kind of things?

893

:

Um, and I just tell him exactly what I

would tell you, like the whole story.

894

:

And he's always listening.

895

:

He's always into it.

896

:

And I need to say, um, I was

working for a, for being crypto,

897

:

um, a big crypto magazine.

898

:

I don't say I'm into crypto and I've.

899

:

I've been an editor in chief for

quite a while there and I started as

900

:

a journalist because I was interested,

interested in Bitcoin and I wanted to

901

:

get paid for learning more about it.

902

:

So I became a journalist and I was

writing a lot about Bitcoin downside.

903

:

I needed to research a lot about crypto.

904

:

What made me realize

this is a scam as well.

905

:

Pretty nice thing.

906

:

And I had a boss.

907

:

And he was so much into Bitcoin and

Monero and into this privacy things.

908

:

And he really made me realize this is the

only way there's no other option anymore.

909

:

And he has a podcast in German.

910

:

So this was my big plus because

I was like, okay, there are no,

911

:

not so many resources out there,

but you know, his name is Alex.

912

:

But you know, Alex, you see them,

you see him in all the meetings.

913

:

He has a podcast, you can listen to it.

914

:

And every time you listen to one

episode, I'm going to send you like 20.

915

:

sets or something like this.

916

:

So he was listening and listening and

listening and I was sending the sets.

917

:

So this is how we get into that.

918

:

And at some point he had the feeling

like he knows enough about it and no,

919

:

it's just a normal part of his life.

920

:

Um, it's nothing special.

921

:

Scott: Well, , the fact that all

the trust that you guys were talking

922

:

about earlier in this conversation

allowed you to have that conversation

923

:

to say, here's what I see going on

with the government and the money.

924

:

And if he didn't have that trust in

you, you could say the same exact thing.

925

:

It'd be very difficult

to, to get him to open up.

926

:

I would think it would be more,

you know, more, more challenging.

927

:

All right, Alex , let's get

into like, what are you doing?

928

:

Because I know I, it, it doesn't sound

like there's a lot of Bitcoiners near

929

:

you and you have your own podcast.

930

:

So let's just, let's, let's talk

about all the things that you're into.

931

:

And then of course we'll put in the

show notes, links to your, your stuff.

932

:

But um, you don't seem like the

type of person who's just going

933

:

to sit there and do nothing.

934

:

So what are you up to?

935

:

What are you up to?

936

:

Alex: I wish I could just

sit down and do nothing.

937

:

Uh, I try to, I try to some,

sometimes it's like 10 minutes,

938

:

but yeah, so I do have my own

podcast, white life unschooling,

939

:

and it started because I had this.

940

:

Yeah, voice in the back of my head,

like you need to talk about that with

941

:

other people, you need to record that.

942

:

And actually, I didn't really know if

this was a good idea, but I just did it.

943

:

So and turned out, okay, this was the best

idea, because it deepened my knowledge, it

944

:

deepened my security about what I'm doing.

945

:

And this is basically what

I'm, yeah, working on.

946

:

And I want people to see the whole

picture of what we are doing, because

947

:

One thing is decentralized money and

one thing is decentralized education

948

:

and what does that have to do with

the other thing and why do we need

949

:

to combine this and this is all about

what I'm talking about in this podcast.

950

:

So I'm inviting Bitcoiners, I'm inviting

homeschooling Bitcoiners, unschooling

951

:

Bitcoiners, just unschoolers, just

homeschoolers and I try to show a very

952

:

different facet of the whole thing.

953

:

in every episode, because I

think the most interesting

954

:

people out there are Bitcoiners.

955

:

I don't necessarily need to talk to,

uh, about Bitcoin with them because

956

:

I already know, I mean, you know, but

to talk with them about other stuff,

957

:

it's like eyeopening most of the times.

958

:

And, um, Yeah, I, I just try to bring

back the spiritual side of money and

959

:

education as well because I think we're

soul beings and I want people to, to

960

:

be confident enough to see that in

themselves and in their kids as well.

961

:

Scott: So, so based on that.

962

:

I mean, our, our audience, we're assuming

is people, um, young parents or soon to

963

:

be parents that want to homeschool or

they, they have their kids and they're

964

:

trying to figure out what else they can

do, even if their kids are in a public

965

:

school or some other circumstance.

966

:

Any particular resources

that you love to recommend?

967

:

I think you mentioned one earlier,

um, I wrote it down, the West River.

968

:

One, any, any other thing like that or

any other last pieces of advice that

969

:

you'd like to, to give someone who is

early, early in their journey, or maybe

970

:

hasn't even taken that first step?

971

:

What would you, uh, what

would you say to them?

972

:

Alex: reach out, reach out to other

unschooling moms that are already a

973

:

little bit more down the road, because,

um, having someone to talk to is gold.

974

:

It's just gold.

975

:

And, um, care if it's listening,

reading videos, but there is

976

:

so much nice stuff out there.

977

:

Peter Gray, Pat Ferenga, there are so

many cool dudes out there that are already

978

:

Like into that way more than I am and

that are providing so many great ideas

979

:

and that are really Yeah, for me it was

like a tranquilizer, to be honest, I was

980

:

reading books by Peter Gray and I was,

after every book I was like, thank God I'm

981

:

doing things right, thank God, because it

was just my intuition, but, um, the very

982

:

Or for me, the most important thing was

letting go of my fear and programming.

983

:

I mean, to de school yourself properly

is I think the most important thing.

984

:

And, uh, the biggest work

you are doing is on yourself.

985

:

It's not, uh, with or on your kid.

986

:

It's actually with yourself.

987

:

So meditate, do yoga, go

running, do all of that things.

988

:

care for yourself as a human being,

um, love yourself deeply and do this,

989

:

do these things like self discovery.

990

:

And I think this is the way to go because

the more you love yourself and the more

991

:

you trust yourself, the better it is for

your kid, because you can give that to

992

:

your kid only if you do it for yourself.

993

:

So de schooling and getting

in contact with others.

994

:

Through reading, talking, everything.

995

:

I think this is super important.

996

:

Scott: I love it.

997

:

I.

998

:

I hope someday we could meet

in person, uh, maybe you and

999

:

Tali can meet at the retreat.

:

00:55:50,303 --> 00:55:53,133

You guys can talk about the

women's retreat and do that, or

:

00:55:53,133 --> 00:55:55,353

you can have one in Canary Islands.

:

00:55:55,353 --> 00:55:57,373

That would be kind of sounds

like a nice thing to do.

:

00:55:57,873 --> 00:55:58,233

She might.

:

00:55:58,893 --> 00:56:03,143

But, uh, listen, this has been so

wonderful to sit down with you, um,

:

00:56:03,383 --> 00:56:05,584

and get to know you, you better.

:

00:56:05,584 --> 00:56:09,838

And any final thoughts, Tali?

:

00:56:10,513 --> 00:56:12,363

Tali: I'm sitting here all like relaxed.

:

00:56:12,373 --> 00:56:17,763

Um, yeah, I just want to reiterate

what Alex said, which is as a parent,

:

00:56:17,793 --> 00:56:20,933

I feel like especially if you're

a young parent, you're so focused

:

00:56:20,933 --> 00:56:24,123

on what Should I do for my kids?

:

00:56:24,323 --> 00:56:26,373

What must I do for my kids?

:

00:56:26,383 --> 00:56:28,213

And you forget to fill your own cup.

:

00:56:28,603 --> 00:56:31,603

And that is so important because

you cannot give them what

:

00:56:31,603 --> 00:56:32,773

you don't have for yourself.

:

00:56:33,053 --> 00:56:37,763

You cannot teach them respect if you

do not have respect for yourself.

:

00:56:37,773 --> 00:56:40,763

First, you're going to teach

them to be loving human beings

:

00:56:40,763 --> 00:56:42,183

if you don't first love yourself.

:

00:56:42,543 --> 00:56:45,533

So absolutely self work trumps everything.

:

00:56:45,683 --> 00:56:49,063

Well, self work and your

relationship with your children.

:

00:56:49,093 --> 00:56:52,443

I think those two things

come first and then.

:

00:56:52,833 --> 00:56:57,303

The academic stuff, the curriculum,

the whatever they end up learning

:

00:56:57,303 --> 00:57:01,483

skill wise, that's secondary and

that will come one way or another.

:

00:57:01,913 --> 00:57:02,083

Scott: So.

:

00:57:02,858 --> 00:57:03,238

Alex: true

:

00:57:05,243 --> 00:57:06,033

Scott: Thanks everybody.

:

00:57:06,063 --> 00:57:07,223

We'll catch you next week.

:

00:57:07,523 --> 00:57:07,743

Bye.

Next Episode All Episodes Previous Episode

About the Podcast

Show artwork for Bitcoin Homeschoolers
Bitcoin Homeschoolers
Self-Custody Education

Listen for free

About your hosts

Profile picture for Tali Lindberg

Tali Lindberg

Hey there, wonderful listeners! I'm Tali, and I'm so excited to welcome you to our podcast today. For two decades, I was knee-deep in the incredible journey of homeschooling my four amazing kids. It was a world of boundless creativity, filled with lesson plans, school projects, sports, and beautiful chaos. But when my children all graduated, a brand-new, unforeseen adventure awaited me - the captivating world of Bitcoin.

It took three years for Scott to bring me into Bitcoin. I hesitated at first, Bitcoin's intricacies seemed daunting, and my plate was already quite full. But he persisted, going so far as to create a fantastic bitcoin-mining board game called HODL UP to demystify it all. Before I knew it, I was down the Bitcoin rabbit hole. Just like my homeschooling journey, I took it one step at a time, learning and evolving as I ventured further.

Now, here we are today, and I couldn't be more thrilled to be part of the vibrant Bitcoin community. In an unexpected twist, my husband Scott and I realized that our homeschooling experiences can be a treasure trove of insights for Bitcoiners who, like us, want to take charge of their children's education. So, in addition to sharing our Bitcoin knowledge with Precoiners with HODL UP and the Orange Hatter podcast, we're here to offer tips and guidance for Bitcoin-homeschoolers. It's going to be an incredible journey, and I can't wait to share it with all of you. Enjoy the ride!
Profile picture for Scott Lindberg

Scott Lindberg

Scott Lindberg is a freedom-loving entrepreneur, author, and game designer. He is a proponent of finding freedom by taking self-custody of education, money and speech.

He and his wife, Tali, co-founded Free Market Kids. Their passion is to give the next generation the knowledge and tools to maximize their chances for freedom, success and happiness. Free Market Kids makes it easy and fun to introduce money concepts to kids through tabletop games, courses, lesson plans and trusted resources. They are best known for HODL UP™, a Bitcoin mining game.

Scott graduated from the United States Military Academy at West Point in 1993 with a Bachelor of Science in Systems Engineering. In 2001, he graduated Yale’s School of Management with a Master of Business Administration.