Episode 20

₿HS020: Overcoming Legal and Fiat Challenges to Homeschooling

SHOW TOPICS:  criminalized homeschooling, “homeschooling” public-school students, screen-time and other challenges

Parents are ultimately responsible for their kids’ education.   Some families live in places where homeschooling is criminalized, e.g., Germany.  Some families can’t afford to formally homeschool, e.g., because both parents must work.  Nonetheless, there are actions parents can take.  Tali and Scott go deep on this challenging situation.  One key takeaway is focusing on relationships because, if your relationships are open, you've got a chance to reach the kids.

IN THIS EPISODE, YOU'LL LEARN:

  • Not everyone who wants to homeschool can.  Some families live in places where homeschooling is criminalized, e.g., Germany.  Some families can’t afford to homeschool, e.g., because both parents must work.  
  • Nonetheless, there are actions you can take if you are in this circumstance.
  • Intentional courage: You are responsible for your kids’ education, not the state.
  • Kids are always watching and learning from what we do, not just what we say.
  • We as parents are not helpless.  We can take action.
  • The nuance between “learning” and “drawing conclusions”
  • Parents can start by clarifying for themselves what they want their kids to learn.
  • Apply the “Don’t trust. Verify.” ethos of Bitcoin.  Don’t hope that public school teachers or administrators will teach things your kids should know.  Parents must ask questions.  Be very deliberate in poking into your kids’ business.  Don’t expect it to be easy.
  • Approaches vary based on age-range.  The younger, the easier.
  • Asking kids about school is not for the purpose of judging them, or their performance, e.g., on a test.  It’s about what they are actually learning.  
  • Proof of love.  Despite eye rolls, they do appreciate that you care.  You are vested in their future.  
  • Teenage years do NOT have to be antagonistic or confrontational all the time as is often portrayed in movies and shows.
  • You as a parent have to be continuously learning yourself.
  • Teaching kids the importance of having courage is valuable.  There’s also a caution: we as parents must remain sensitive to the intense pressures kids will face, not just from other kids but from adults in positions of authority.  
  • If the family is strong, if the relationships are really strong, it's easier for the child to be courageous.
  • Choosing your battles and remaining flexible
  • Principle of choosing the harder right over the easier wrong
  • Example subjects to boost public-school kids’ knowledge:  history, economics, social studies, current events.
  • Parents and kids are busy.  Attention time is scarce.  Lectures are not effective for heavy subjects.  Be aware of creating unintentional resistance.
  • One of the things that works against us as parents trying to build relationships with kids today is screen time. 
  • Options and methods:

o   Game nights

o   Family dinners

o   Special projects

o   Movie nights (selective movies) 

o   Captured audience, e.g., driving time

o   Assigned readings, videos (e.g., documentaries) (“home” homework vs. “school” homework)

  • A key takeaway is to focus on the relationship because, because if your relationship is open, you've got a chance to communicate.  Focus on that and the other things will fall into place.
  • Do you know someone who is doing these things?  Tali and Scott would love to interview them.  

RESOURCES MENTIONED IN THE SHOW:

HAPPY TO HELP:

  • Tali's Twitter @OrangeHatterPod
  • Scott's Twitter @ScottLindberg93
  • Scott's nostr npub19jkuyl0wgrj8kccqzh2vnseeql9v98ptrx407ca9qjsrr4x5j9tsnxx0q6
  • Free Market Kids' Twitter @FreeMarketKids
  • Orange Pill App @FreeMarketKids
  • Free Market Kids' games including HODL UP https://www.freemarketkids.com/collections/games

WAYS TO SUPPORT:

We are essentially our own sponsors and are so grateful for all of you who support this show.  Thank you!

STANDING RESOURCE RECOMMENDATIONS:

Mentioned in this episode:

Aleia Free Market Kids Full

Transcript
Scott:

Bitcoin homeschoolers is more than just the money.

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Tali: It really comes down

to a trusting relationship

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Scott: what do you value?

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If you value your kid, being able to

think critically, if you value the idea

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that your kid's going to understand what

you've learned about money since you got

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Bitcoin, then you have to make a decision

about what you're going to be able to do

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Tali: I challenge that image because

it does not have to be that way.

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You can be partners with your

kids as they're growing up,

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being their mentor, their.

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Scott: leader.

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Tali: parents are very invested

and the relationship is is safe

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between the parent and the child.

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And there's a high level of trust.

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Scott: they are under extreme pressure.

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It's not just the other kids.

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Sometimes it's the teacher,

the professor, the principal,

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if they have a woke agenda

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Welcome, Bitcoin homeschoolers.

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Today, Talia and I are going to

address a subject that has come up

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In person, it has come up in comments

like on Fountain and other places.

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And someday I would like to

actually interview someone

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who is in this circumstance.

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But for today, Tali and I are going to

explore, What do you do when you are in an

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area where homeschooling is criminalized?

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Like in Germany,

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Tali: well, it's not really

about Just those people.

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It's just, it's people who can't

homeschool for a variety of

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Scott: I was going to get to that.

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Tali: because how many countries

criminalize homeschooling?

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I don't know.

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Scott: I don't know either.

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But part two of this that Tali

is talking about is this is also

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for people who cannot do it.

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It might be you are a single working

parent or you're a married couple

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and you both have to work because

of what's going on in the fiat

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world and for whatever reason,

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either because jurisdictionally,

you're not allowed to, or because of

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other circumstances, you don't have

the time or the bandwidth to do it.

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So, if you're, if you're both working,

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and you have your kids in public school.

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What can you do in terms of parenting

and teaching and schooling when

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you can't go a hundred percent on

homeschooling and what we usually.

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Referred to as homeschooling where there's

stay at home parent, usually the mother.

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So that's the topic.

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I'll kick off here and we're

gonna go back and forth.

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Talia and I I will say we are not

in total agreement my My weakness in

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this is to get on a soapbox and get

very upset about what governments are

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doing and what school districts are

teaching and some things like that.

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So I will do my best to not get heated.

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To me, this is a, this, this whole

thing is about having the intentional

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courage of what you're going to do.

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Um, but what you're gonna hear is

I'm going to kick off the subject.

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Tali and I will go back and forth

and, we are, not always in agreement

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on this one, but it's, it's still,

it's a really good discussion.

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It's going to be some fun.

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So I will start off by saying from a first

principle standpoint, you as the parent

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are responsible for your kid's education,

not to state, and it doesn't matter.

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Whatever the laws are, you will,

as a parent, are responsible

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for your kid's education.

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So, I will also say that

kids are always watching.

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We've talked about this in other episodes.

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They are always feeling and

learning things and their

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experiences, even bad things.

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So, for me, I had a FIAT operations.

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Job, series of jobs, and I

was working a lot of hours.

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I was not happy doing

the work I was doing.

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So I would come home in this kind of

miserable, stressed, underslept state, and

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I, I don't know what our kids picked up

from that, but they probably picked up,

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Hey, dad's work really long hours or dad's

don't have time to teach or something.

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Even if it was unsaid.

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Um, but they also look at what foods

you eat, do you exercise, do you read?

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We did have a

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Tali: a lot of discussions about

that just while you weren't

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Scott: weren't here.

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Okay.

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So, my point is, number one was, hey,

listen, as a parent you're responsible.

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And the second point, second principle

is, they, the kids are always learning.

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And it's not just the school work,

it's not just the curriculum.

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And so what you choose to do

and not do, you are actually,

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you have a huge influence.

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Even if you have limited time.

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I don't think people are, are helpless.

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You, you can do things.

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We'll get into kind of discussion of

what we think some of those things are.

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but that's my position is you, you

can do things even if you're, you're

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limited and it does make a big impact.

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Tali: I would just add the nuance.

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between learning and drawing conclusions,

because learning suggests that

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they're accepting what they're being

taught, whereas drawing conclusions

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is just them observing what's

happening, and then making their own

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decisions about what they will do.

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An example would be, if somebody's

witnessing, um, alcoholic father, they

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can learn that behavior and become

alcoholic themselves, or they can draw

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their own conclusions that that is not

a lifestyle that they want to engage in.

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And therefore they Absolutely.

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Do not touch alcohol at all.

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So drawing conclusions, I think, suggests

that children have critical thinking,

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even from the point before we assume they

have critical thinking, they're already

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drawing their own conclusions about

what they like and what they don't like.

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Scott: All right.

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So let me then let me move on.

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, the first thing that I think

parents have to do is they have

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to be intentional about what level

of involvement they want to have.

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That becomes your, your, your

guideposts guiding light, if you

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will, which direction am I going

to go with this, regardless of

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whatever your, your challenges are,

as we've talked about above and

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and so time, I guess, is like,

first subject because there's

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a full spectrum of involvement

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but not everybody's gonna be

able to have that much bandwidth.

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This is a part of, it's

where it's intentional.

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I think parents need to be

clear about what they want as

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a parent, their kids to learn.

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And then from there you can work

through your challenges to, um, to

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basically get those points across,

those ideas across to your kids.

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Moving on then.

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I don't think Talis

disagreeing with me there.

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I would say the second thing then is, is.

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It's the don't trust,

verify ethos of Bitcoin.

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Hope is not a strategy, right?

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So you cannot hope, well, I guess you can.

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I don't think it's a good strategy that

if your kids go to school, somehow they're

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going to be able to discern between

what you think is right or wrong in

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terms of the subjects or the frameworks

of those subjects and what that.

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Implies is you have to really be alert

and you need to be very deliberate

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in poking into your kid's business.

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And when your kids are younger, this

is easier as they get into teenage

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years, it gets more difficult,

but you need to ask questions.

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Hey, what subjects are you taking?

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Hey, what textbooks are you using?

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Can I see the textbooks?

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What are your teachers saying

about these, these subjects?

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So that's the first.

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I guess, tenant of what to do

from my standpoint, and that is

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you're, you're not going to trust.

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You're going to verify what are

your kids actually studying.

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And it requires, I don't call it

being intrusive, but being very

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deliberate and asking questions.

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I know as a teenager, my

answer would have been.

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Day was fine, or no big deal, I

would have answered very generically.

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I'm not saying this is easy, but I'm

saying this is critical, is you have

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to be alert as to what's going on.

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Okay, to

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Tali: So I just want to

address that the age range.

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Scott: kids,

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Tali: of your kids and the different

kind of approach or attitude toward

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this, what we're suggesting in you

asking your kids about their day.

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So when you are little, when your

kids are little, you are their hero.

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And I don't know one child who doesn't

enjoy spending time with their parents

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or having their parents attend.

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They're parents attention.

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And so it's going to be really easy

when the kids come home to say,

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Hey, what did you learn in school?

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What was the best part?

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And it's not necessarily, you know, some

people think when they're grilling their

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kids about school, it's about the great,

you know, what did you get on your quiz?

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And what did you get on your test?

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But that's not.

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That's not our intention at all.

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We just want to have a general

understanding not only about the academic

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topics that they've been taught but also

social interactions because a lot of

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the a lot of the what's it called the

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Scott: um,

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Tali: Brainwashing for the

lack of a better word happens

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during social interactions.

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There's shaming if you disagree with

people there's Ostracizing those are those

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can happen overtly or they can happen

in a really subtle way and you have to

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Scott: be really,

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Tali: Like what Scott was

saying, be very deliberate in

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observing cues from your kids.

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Now if they get to an age where they're

giving you one more answers, like what

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Scott was saying, he was high school

and his mom would say, how was your day?

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He'll say fine.

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Like one more answers.

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I mean we have two boys they are.

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It's definitely less

communicative than our girls.

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And so I end up having to

ask specific questions.

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You know, how, how was your day?

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Like tell me more, give me more details.

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Just, just three words.

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Scott: Get

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Tali: And that's

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Scott: more details.

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Tali: I want to know more,

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Scott: Right.

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And, and

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Tali: You're showing interest

and then I roll their eyes

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Scott: Exactly what I

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was thinking.

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They're going to roll your eyes.

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You have to.

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Tali: there is going to be a

part of them that appreciates

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the fact that you're asking.

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And also, again, we're not asking.

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To judge we're not asking, you

know, what did you get on your test?

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We're asking what are

you actually learning?

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What it what was the discussion about?

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What did you take away from it?

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What was something that you disagree with?

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It's and it sounds like

there's a lot right where it

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sounds like we're saying this.

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This can be like an hour

grilling session, but it's not.

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It's really you can do it in passing.

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You can do it when you're both getting

coffee From the kitchen in our case,

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or right before dinner or right

before bed, it can be done in passing.

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But just the fact that your kids know you

are watching and paying attention, that

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in and of itself will make a difference.

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Scott: Completely agree.

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So earlier on, when I said

the kids were watching.

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Whether you're saying it or not, I, I

think that's like proof of love, right?

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You are interested, you are

vested in their future and

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you are going to ask about it.

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And I think consistency is the word

that comes to mind because if you try

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this for the first time and you haven't

already established a pattern with your

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children that you're going to ask a lot

of questions, it's going to be weird.

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You're going to feel weird.

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They're probably going to feel weird.

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At least I just anticipate based on the

conversations I've had with our own kids.

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Anytime you're trying to do something

that's a little bit out of what you've

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already established as your normal

way of communicating, it's going

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to be feel, feel weird, but that's

where I go back to the guideposts.

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If, if you value what you want to

accomplish with schooling, then you

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say, okay, I just need 90 to take, I am

intentionally going to be courageous.

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I know this is going to be awkward.

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And I am going to do this every

time I see my kids and be consistent

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with it until it becomes a new norm

at some point, it becomes a norm.

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So yes, the kids are going to roll

their eyes and that's fine, but

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they know, at least our kids know

that we are going to ask a lot of

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questions, especially their mom.

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I think they're, but they're

going to, they, they know that

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you are communicating, that

you care, that you love them.

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You want to know these things and you

as a parent need to be prepared to say,

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it's like a grit kind of question I am

going to push through this, these awkward

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conversations because it's important

to their future that I do this and I

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don't think it's easy though I do think

this is a, it sounds easy to say, in

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practice asking these questions questions.

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This takes time to do, at

least in most families.

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And maybe I'm, maybe I'm

just projecting in that case.

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Tali: Well, I also want to address

that there is a cultural picture of

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rebellious teenagers that I think

mostly was painted through media.

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Like a lot of TV sitcoms make fun

of how rebellious and, uh, teenagers

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are in full of attitude and the fact

that they're secretive, the fact

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that they don't like their parents,

the fact that they don't get along,

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like it's commonly portrayed as.

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A phase that every child goes

through, through movies, TV shows,

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Scott: just

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Tali: casual conversation, et cetera.

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And I want to challenge that

image because it doesn't have

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to be that, that way at all.

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It does not have to be that way.

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You can be partners with your kids

as they're growing up, being their

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mentor, being their friend, being their.

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Scott: leader.

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Tali: It does not have to play

out in a way that the mainstream

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portrays that phase of life to, to

be, and we have both seen it over

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and over again in families where.

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From the time the kids are little,

the parents are very invested

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and the relationship is is safe

between the parent and the child.

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And there's a high level of trust.

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They go through the teenage years.

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And yes, the kids need to form their own

opinions away from you, but it doesn't

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have to be an antagonistic relationship.

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So even though we're talking about,

you know, if you're asking them about

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their day and they're rolling their

eyes, I'm not painting a picture where

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you're It's going to be a super painful.

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Why are you bugging me?

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Kind of conversation.

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They might roll their eyes because

they don't feel like talking, but it is

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not a disrespectful kind of rebellious

teenage thing that we're painting here

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because it does not have to be that way.

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Scott: that way, right?

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Okay, so I'm I'm a structured kind of guy.

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So I'll just keep going through with

this So the first thing we talked about

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was like this intentional courage.

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What do you want?

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Second thing was the don't trust verify

you have to ask questions the the next

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thing that I have on my notes is you

have to continuously learn yourself so

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if you want To be able to guide your

kids correctly, you have to have some

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sense of what you want to tell them.

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And I'm not saying you have to be a

technical expert on everything about

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how to set up wallets in your own node.

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I'm not saying that you have to

be some economics genius that has

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read every, every book out there.

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What I am saying is that you need to have,

and you need to exhibit, For your kids,

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this idea of continuously learning, and

this is going to lead to another point

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I'll have later, but if you don't, if you

don't have an idea of where they can go

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off the rails in, in public education.

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So one of the things that will come up

later in our discussion, I have some notes

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about, for example, teaching history.

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If you're going to incorporate the idea

that, Hey, the way that world war one was.

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Was funded and what it meant what

the Bank of England had to do and the

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significance of that Eventually leading

to these discussions of endless wars.

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There's a whole bunch of

things to unpack there.

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However, if you had not been

studying Money, I think everybody

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listening to this podcast.

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If you're a bit coiner, you're probably

already getting this with Some in

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some form you're reading books.

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You're reading articles.

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You're going to meetups Podcasts.

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I think you're getting that.

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So, uh, but I just want to call it out

as a step that the keeping yourself

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sharp and aware of what are the things

you want to get across, like if you,

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if you don't have that, then it's great

that you're having conversations with

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them, but if you don't know what to

follow up with, then,, then what, right,

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then the, so what, so that's my point,

continuous learning for yourself so that,

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you know, And you can make a decision

about what you want to teach your kids.

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Tali: I don't think with our

audience, we have to worry about that

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Scott: Okay,

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Tali: otherwise they wouldn't be

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Scott: That's true.

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All right.

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All right.

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So next step, number, number four is

the teaching your kids about what it

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means to have the courage to face their

fears and to take, take actions and I

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guess what comes with this, what's on

my mind is, is almost like a caution.

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The, the idea, if you speak out

today, you can be shut off of social

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media, unless you're on Nostra.

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Um, you can be shut off social media.

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If you speak up in certain workplaces,

you might, you might lose your job.

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Right?

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There are, there are consequences

and the department of justice, I,

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this, this is where I usually get.

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I get a little crazy.

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I'm not going to go down this

path, but you, perhaps could get

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labeled as some kind of extremist

and maybe FBI or somebody else is

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going to come, come a knocking.

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So you have to have courage

to say, no, that's not right.

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I want to do this.

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But from a cautionary standpoint,

the amount of pressure our

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kids are under with what.

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Now you can do bullying through social

media, like we didn't have to worry

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about that when I was a kid, and you

have this intensity that we just have

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to be aware of Hey kids, we want you

to stand up and do the right thing You

333

:

know, you need to teach them about the

courage, but we need to also be aware as

334

:

parents, they are under extreme pressure.

335

:

And sometimes it's not

just the other kids.

336

:

Sometimes it's the, the author, the

authoritarian, the, the teacher,

337

:

the professor, the whoever, the

principal, if they have a woke agenda.

338

:

And so for example, on another podcast,

we talked about what one of our

339

:

daughters went through at college.

340

:

The professor asked a question.

341

:

I think it was like the, what the,

was it the sex question or something?

342

:

Tali: The question was, how do, how

would you compare a child growing into an

343

:

adult to a man transitioning to a woman?

344

:

That was the question for her.

345

:

And our daughter's answer was

one is a natural process and

346

:

one is an unnatural process.

347

:

And for that, she got

into a lot of trouble.

348

:

Scott: Well, by a lot of trouble,

they, they called together a special

349

:

intervention because somebody's

feelings have been hurt and, and my

350

:

point, and apologies for the dog in

the background if you can hear that

351

:

noise, they, my, my point in bringing

this up is you can take these actions.

352

:

You're going to need courage to do this,

but we also need to be very aware that

353

:

the environment that our kids are in.

354

:

In, especially in like public schools,

but even in colleges, like there's

355

:

intense pressure there and we just

need to be aware of that and it's one

356

:

thing to say, have courage and stand

up and do these things, but this is,

357

:

um, this is just a caution, I guess,

about teaching courage, but being

358

:

aware and being human that they're

going to be under a lot of pressure.

359

:

Tali: Well, I think the key here in terms

of a person or any person, whether it's

360

:

child or adult, having courage is whether

or not they feel like they have backing.

361

:

And when I mean backing, what I

mean by backing is as a child, to

362

:

you, is your family your support?

363

:

Do you trust that they

will stand behind you?

364

:

Do you, do you have a fortress

that you can retreat into?

365

:

In my head, that's the

way, that's what I paint.

366

:

Like for you to, for you to speak with

courage, you gotta know that you're

367

:

coming from a position of power.

368

:

And in a child mind, the power is in the

stability and the support of the family.

369

:

So if the family is strong, if the

relationships are really strong,

370

:

it's easier for the child to be

courageous because yes, they might be.

371

:

they might be some opposition for what

they believe at school, but that won't

372

:

hurt them if you have a strong family

unit, In that your relationships are

373

:

full of trust, then it will be easier

for your child to be courageous.

374

:

And so we always go back to as long as

you are involved in your child's life, as

375

:

long as your child knows that he or she

matters to you, as long as they know that

376

:

you are intentionally Invested in them.

377

:

Then then it'll be easier for them

to speak up if their opinion is

378

:

different and even if, and I want to

kind of refer back to one of those

379

:

old ancient Chinese saying things.

380

:

A grass, a blade of grass.

381

:

is stronger than an oak

tree because it can bend.

382

:

So when the wind blows, it'll bend over

383

:

Scott: and

384

:

Tali: they'll spring back

up when the wind is done.

385

:

But an oak tree that isn't unbending when

the wind blows it over, it's just down.

386

:

And so teaching your kids to be in,

to be emotionally intelligent, to

387

:

know when to speak and when to keep

quiet, that's another skill set

388

:

that they should develop in life.

389

:

Scott: almost part two.

390

:

I mean, you want them

to be courageous though.

391

:

Right?

392

:

Right?

393

:

There's also the expression that

weak men lead to bad times, bad

394

:

times lead to, strong men, and

strong men lead to good times.

395

:

A whole cycle like that.

396

:

So do

397

:

Tali: you also need to pick your battles.

398

:

You can't fight every single battle.

399

:

Scott: Okay.

400

:

I agree with you.

401

:

I, I, I agree with you.

402

:

I, I think that the point about teaching,

it's like the harder right over the

403

:

easier, wrong kind of discussion.

404

:

It's just another form of that discussion.

405

:

Knowing when to pick your battles is a,

is just being smart about how you do it.

406

:

Right?

407

:

So I, I'm, I'm in agreement.

408

:

We can say a lot of different

ways being flexible.

409

:

But you still, there's something about

standing up to do the harder, right?

410

:

There's something very,

very fundamental in that.

411

:

And when good people don't stand

up and do the right thing, that

412

:

that's when bad people, that's

when evil things can happen.

413

:

So anyway,

414

:

all right.

415

:

We've really,

416

:

Tali: otherwise you get shot

down and then nothing gets

417

:

Scott: okay.

418

:

So the next part, um, I

want to break this up into.

419

:

Get a little practical.

420

:

, I don't want to be too prescriptive,

but I thought it'd be cool.

421

:

I had a few subjects that I thought would

be, relevant, one would be history.

422

:

One of the things that I have, I

have found to be really interesting

423

:

going down the rabbit hole, going

down the Bitcoin rabbit hole, is

424

:

seeing history completely differently.

425

:

Then it was ever explained to

me in the movies, in school,

426

:

however you want to cut it.

427

:

And so for example, let's say your

kids are in middle school, public

428

:

school, and they're learning history.

429

:

Maybe they're, even in, in high

school and they're, and they're

430

:

studying American history and you

get to the point on World War I.

431

:

Well, nowhere ever do I remember

anybody discussing what happened with

432

:

money and how World War I was funded.

433

:

And I know there's been a

couple of different places.

434

:

The one that's most recent to me is

in Lynn Alden's Broken Money book,

435

:

talking about this, but I know it's

been discussed in other places as well.

436

:

So if your student is studying history

and then you go back to what we said

437

:

before, where you have to ask questions

and you say, Hey, what are you studying?

438

:

Well, I have a history class this

year or this semester and saying,

439

:

okay, what do you, they come home

and you say, what do you, what part

440

:

of history are you, you're studying?

441

:

And you say, well, we're in the

beginning of the 20th century.

442

:

Then you can say, well, either you

bring up the facts or depending on

443

:

your student, maybe you have them

read, even read that chapter, at

444

:

least put the idea in their head.

445

:

There is a, another piece of this

puzzle that in all likelihood is

446

:

not going to be brought up by that.

447

:

Instructor.

448

:

So you can do that over the

dinner table, you can, you have

449

:

to gauge this thing on the amount

of time you have to invest, right?

450

:

If you only have five minutes with them

because that's all you get when they

451

:

get home before they get ready to go out

for sports, maybe that's all you get.

452

:

If you're at a dinner table

and you can talk longer.

453

:

Okay, that's great.

454

:

If you actually want to go much

more extreme and say, and I

455

:

want you to do extra reading.

456

:

I don't think most people will be

able to do that, but Okay, here's

457

:

a, here's the things, but if you're

informed, going back to the earlier,

458

:

what I said, keep yourself informed,

you'll be aware of what resources and

459

:

ideas to bring up at the right time.

460

:

And history is an excellent one.

461

:

It could be another one too.

462

:

It could be world history.

463

:

Go back to the fall of the Roman empire,

go back to Chinese dynasties, go back

464

:

to, wherever you want and find out what

was going on with money at that time.

465

:

And talk about.

466

:

Debasement, for example, the debasement

of currencies in the Roman empire.

467

:

Those are things.

468

:

Those are examples from us,

from a history standpoint.

469

:

You look, do you have

any comments on this?

470

:

I can't tell by your body language.

471

:

If you have comments,

472

:

Tali: I was just thinking back to the way

I learned history, whether it's Chinese

473

:

history or American history, and there

was never any mention of money involved.

474

:

There was always an emphasis on the

personal character of the tyrant,

475

:

which led to war or rebellion,

but they don't talk about it.

476

:

Why these people were suffering,

it was always just, it was, it's a

477

:

tyrant, they were unfair to the people

and the people were poor, but you're

478

:

just like, oh, okay, tyrant equals

poor people, but how did they do it?

479

:

Scott: Right.

480

:

Yep.

481

:

Yep.

482

:

Okay.

483

:

Let's get on to, have like three subjects

and then we can go into the other options.

484

:

So the second subject is

social studies slash economics.

485

:

Many, many high schools.

486

:

I know I was required to

take a government course.

487

:

So social studies is a normal required

course in, in junior high and high school

488

:

curriculums, at least in the, in the U S.

489

:

So all types of things can come up here.

490

:

So for example, what was the

cause of the great depression?

491

:

What was the role of the banks?

492

:

Austrian economic points of

view that will not come up.

493

:

Because they don't fit the current

political agendas and they don't fit

494

:

the current Fiat, Kensian models, even

MMT models that might be be taught.

495

:

So in an economics course or even in

a social studies course, being able to

496

:

introduce some of those ideas of what

is money, some of the basic principles.

497

:

Again, everybody listening to this

podcast, if you're already a Bitcoiner,

498

:

You, you have undoubtedly been exposed

to these kinds of conversations.

499

:

Your kids in public schools, I keep

saying public schools as an example,

500

:

um, your kids, if you're not doing

homeschooling, are going to be exposed

501

:

to these things and they're going to

be presented either missing major,

502

:

major concepts or misrepresented and

actually even worse, misrepresented.

503

:

So That's on the economics

and social studies.

504

:

And the last one is just current events.

505

:

I don't know how this is brought up

in Yeah, I don't know if that's a

506

:

social studies course or if teachers

just bring it up You know in whatever

507

:

course they're in but being aware

for example of What is inflation?

508

:

Um, is it an expansion of the

monetary supply or is it like what

509

:

the government says is with the CPI,

the jobs report that just came out

510

:

talking about how great things were.

511

:

Well, if you actually dig into

it, it's actually pretty bad.

512

:

And there are things

that you can, you can do.

513

:

So for example, keeping yourself informed,

514

:

There's a few examples that I'm

thinking of that I was going to bring

515

:

up later on, but I'll bring them up now.

516

:

One is I find Lynn Alden's

newsletter to just be fantastic.

517

:

It's a 10 or 15 minute read.

518

:

And if you read it, if you read that

once a month, once a quarter, if

519

:

you listen weekly to the Peter St.

520

:

Onge podcast, it's, it's like 20 minutes

and he's going to summarize current events

521

:

from an Austrian economics point of view.

522

:

And he's really snarky, which actually

makes it cool for teenagers listen to

523

:

because he's going to start off by saying,

what are the clowns trying to do to you?

524

:

But my point is current events are

going to come up in a classroom.

525

:

And if you, through conversation, maybe

your kids don't have to read those

526

:

things or listen to those podcasts,

but if you're keeping yourself informed

527

:

and you're having those, the, you're

asking those questions, you can

528

:

bring up points to your kids so that.

529

:

When they're in a classroom, at least

in the back of their head, they go,

530

:

I've heard something different for this.

531

:

So those are three subject areas.

532

:

I didn't list out too many.

533

:

It was history, social

studies, and current events.

534

:

Anything that from a subject standpoint.

535

:

Tali: No, not from a subject standpoint.

536

:

I want to talk more about

the implementation of this.

537

:

Just

538

:

Scott: What was the next one?

539

:

yeah, let's go.

540

:

Let's go for it.

541

:

Tali: parents are busy these days.

542

:

Attention is a precious commodity

nowadays, whether it's your

543

:

attention or a kid's attention.

544

:

I think it would be very challenging if

you approach these subjects with your kids

545

:

Scott: from

546

:

Tali: a lecture.

547

:

method

548

:

because it's not, I mean, if these are

really serious topics, these are not

549

:

fun topics, and it does get very heavy,

especially when you start to see how the

550

:

world is operating in an unfair way and.

551

:

For example, when, after I learned about

how money works, I never looked at another

552

:

war, movie, or story, or documentary, or

any kind of mention of war the same way

553

:

ever again, because it's so senseless.

554

:

So, I want to take a step back

and think implementation that will

555

:

work because we're, we're really

speaking to parents with at least a

556

:

middle school, high school age child.

557

:

So they're already having a lot of

things that they're dealing with in life.

558

:

They're, they're dealing with puberty,

they're going, they're dealing with.

559

:

you know, friend groups, and they're

dealing with their lives changing going

560

:

from middle school to high school or

trying to figure out their future.

561

:

So they have a lot of pressure already.

562

:

So in terms of implementation, I

think we have to be really aware

563

:

of lecturing them all the time.

564

:

Like if you read something from

Lin Alden's newsletter, you go,

565

:

Hey, guess what I heard, they are

going to switch off immediately.

566

:

Because to them, their

world is much smaller yet.

567

:

Their world is their friend

group, their family, their school.

568

:

And so, that's actually one of

the reasons why we keep promoting

569

:

game night, family game night.

570

:

You can have these conversations

while you're having fun, and that's

571

:

gonna basically lower the resistance.

572

:

Screen just a little bit, so you

can kind of interject those ideas.

573

:

Like you said, if they have heard of

these concepts before, and then they

574

:

hear something different at school,

they would have, they have a chance

575

:

of contrasting the two points of view.

576

:

But if you're lecturing them all the

time or saying, hey, go read this

577

:

article or hey, go read this book.

578

:

I think there's, we're

going to unintentionally

579

:

create a lot of resistance.

580

:

So whether it's maybe like a fun

movie you can watch together that

581

:

the bitcorners are recommending or

a game night You can use our game.

582

:

You can use somebody else's game doesn't

matter But just some way of making it

583

:

the conversation part of another fun

activity than just the conversation itself

584

:

That would be my kind of caveat here.

585

:

Scott: I don't have the

perfect answer on that.

586

:

I know with, I know with recently with our

older son, I made a mention to something.

587

:

I was, I was trying to actually

do some of these things.

588

:

He's already, he's already

done with high school.

589

:

He has a job.

590

:

He's thinking about other things.

591

:

Something came up and I made a

comment about malinvestment because

592

:

obviously from my point of view,

there's a lot of malinvestment.

593

:

I don't believe we're in free markets.

594

:

A whole lot there, but I wasn't, I

didn't even go deep into any of that.

595

:

I wasn't on a soapbox.

596

:

I tried to make a passing comment

and man, he shot me down quick.

597

:

Like it was eye rolling.

598

:

Oh my God.

599

:

Dad's lecturing kind of thing.

600

:

And I'm like, I was not lecturing.

601

:

You want me to lecture?

602

:

Like I'll lecture like that.

603

:

That was not a lecture I do.

604

:

So I, I don't have the perfect answer.

605

:

I do think if you can

work it into game nights.

606

:

You can do it.

607

:

Like maybe you're playing Monopoly

and you can say what would happen

608

:

if and you can, there's all kinds

of things you can work in there with

609

:

inflation or, or other things like that.

610

:

You can, uh, yes, with our game,

you can work in Bitcoin concepts.

611

:

I do think game nights are, it

was actually on my list of things.

612

:

Uh, you also have the benefit

of fellowship because yeah.

613

:

One of the things that works

against us as parents trying to

614

:

build those relationships with

kids today is the screen time.

615

:

And I'm not saying take away the screens

because I know that's part of life,

616

:

but there is something to having a game

night when you're not looking at your

617

:

phone, you're not looking at the computer

you're not just watching Netflix.

618

:

You can, you can actually talk.

619

:

So that fellowship.

620

:

Um, gives you more opportunities to try to

work these things into the conversation.

621

:

Um, I liked the idea of what you

said about trying to make it fun too.

622

:

So a lot of people, a lot of

dads want to make dad jokes.

623

:

So maybe there's a way using your own

personality that you can bring up subjects

624

:

and, and do it in small little bits.

625

:

Repeatedly, right?

626

:

So that doesn't come across as a lecture.

627

:

So, another thing on my, on my

list, and this is harder, but if you

628

:

are actually able to have dinners

together as a family, how do you

629

:

guide those kind of conversations?

630

:

Again, if everybody's just watching TV or

they're eating independently or something

631

:

like that, it's not going to work.

632

:

But if you actually can have dinners

together, there's a lot of connections

633

:

with the health of the family, the

relationships and the trust and

634

:

all the other things like that.

635

:

But it's also an opportunity

to work in discussions.

636

:

Maybe you work in current events.

637

:

Maybe you work in, um, some other idea.

638

:

Maybe that's where you ask about

how someone's day is going.

639

:

So the younger sibling can hear you

talking to the older sibling about One

640

:

of those history ideas so you have game

nights, you have dinner discussions.

641

:

Another one is potentially doing things

like listening to podcasts together.

642

:

We have a friend who he and

his 16 year old daughter

643

:

actually do a podcast together.

644

:

Most people don't have that amount

of time, but there are creative

645

:

things that you can do where you can

have those kinds of conversations.

646

:

You can have a lot of conversations there.

647

:

And.

648

:

Tali: Well, so as a parent I imagine you

spend a lot of time driving your kids

649

:

around, whether it's to soccer or football

or dance or gymnastics or something.

650

:

There are a lot of times when you

have a captive audience as long as you

651

:

don't let them put their earbuds in.

652

:

So if the rule, maybe once or twice

a week, when they get in the car

653

:

is no earbuds, you get to play.

654

:

your podcast, and they don't

have to listen, but they can't

655

:

put anything in their ears.

656

:

So afterwards, whether you discuss

it or not, they've heard it.

657

:

And it's sitting there in the back of

their mind, and they can retrieve that

658

:

information one day if they need to.

659

:

Oh, that's one thing.

660

:

And the other thing I wanted

to say was, um, I forgot.

661

:

Okay, Well,

662

:

Scott: while you're thinking of that,

um, I'll get, I'll give another example.

663

:

So, and again, most of these things,

I think, I think there's a spectrum.

664

:

The earlier you start these patterns

with your children, the easier it is.

665

:

So if you're a pattern with your kids,

when you're driving around, when they're

666

:

young is mom's going to put in a, an

honorable book or a podcast or whatever.

667

:

Like when they get older,

that's just the norm.

668

:

Whereas if you try to start that.

669

:

After they've already gotten into the

habit where they just put their music

670

:

in their, their earbuds and they ignore

you for the ride, much more difficult

671

:

to retrain that, that the habit there.

672

:

But the, the, the thing that I

was going to bring up was trying

673

:

to do special projects together.

674

:

And this has come up on other podcasts.

675

:

I, I wish I could remember which

episode it was, but Preston Pish was

676

:

talking about how he was learning AI.

677

:

He was using AI to help.

678

:

A project where he was working

with his, his kid on building

679

:

an automatic dog feeder.

680

:

I'm just, I love that example.

681

:

I, I just think that is great.

682

:

You're learning so much there.

683

:

Um, and it gives you a time to

talk about different things.

684

:

You can talk about creating

things and entrepreneurship and.

685

:

The AI technology, there's just

so many things that that opens up.

686

:

So in my mind, I guess I put that as

like a special project that's different

687

:

than just listening to something together

because you're, it's interactive.

688

:

And it is it, is it money per se?

689

:

No, but I mean, Bitcoin homeschoolers

is more than just the money.

690

:

There's a lot of other

principles we want to teach.

691

:

And AI is certainly something

that we've talked about before is

692

:

something that should be taught.

693

:

So to me, one of the things you

can do, even if your kid is in.

694

:

Public school is you can

work on special projects.

695

:

You can also, for example, sign

them up for like robotics or some

696

:

other club that's outside of school.

697

:

And again, similar kind of concept where

you can work on things together outside

698

:

of this, the structured environment.

699

:

Tali: I was going to say that it really

comes down to a trusting relationship

700

:

and that can be built in numerous ways.

701

:

But the key is personal involvement.

702

:

And the technique that I wanted

to mention that I just heard

703

:

about this week from a book called

intention experiment by limit tagger.

704

:

She talks about how five minutes of

focusing on the same intention if

705

:

for a group of people actually brings

them more connected in a way that.

706

:

It's almost unexplainable.

707

:

So if you are in a situation where you

just cannot get your high schoolers to

708

:

take out

709

:

their earbuds and listen to

what you have to say, or you're

710

:

too busy, they're too busy.

711

:

Doesn't matter what the, what the

reason is, but you're just really

712

:

having trouble making that connection.

713

:

Then five minutes of the family

together intending on something.

714

:

And it could be.

715

:

Anything at all.

716

:

It could be praying for

their grandma's health.

717

:

It could be praying for a

summer job for your kid.

718

:

It doesn't matter.

719

:

Just the collective intention directed at

the same goal for five minutes actually

720

:

makes the group more closely connected.

721

:

Scott: So how does that connect to though?

722

:

That, I mean, this is to help

people like who, whose kids.

723

:

For whatever reason are not

homeschooled, but they want to

724

:

implement some of these things.

725

:

How does that help them?

726

:

Tali: Because in order for you to

impart what you want to impart.

727

:

Knowledge wise, critical

thinking wise, whatever, it comes

728

:

Scott: back to,

729

:

Tali: do you have a trusting relationship?

730

:

Do you have an open relationship?

731

:

Do you have a, mutually

respectful relationship?

732

:

It comes down to relationship.

733

:

If they, if your child is completely

disconnected from you emotionally,

734

:

you can't tell them anything.

735

:

Scott: that's pretty sound logic.

736

:

I can't argue with that.

737

:

Any more on that?

738

:

Cause I had another one

last thing to throw out.

739

:

Okay.

740

:

So the last thing in terms

of implementation ideas, and

741

:

this goes to, again, how much

time can you really invest?

742

:

This is not for everybody.

743

:

I'm going to say it anyway, but

you can actually go to the point of

744

:

assigned reading, like with books or

newsletters, you can do it assigned.

745

:

Things to listen to, like the

podcast we mentioned earlier, it

746

:

could be watching documentaries.

747

:

I know that Odell and McCormick

and others have put together

748

:

documentaries on, on different things.

749

:

So it's almost homework, basically.

750

:

I, I, I don't believe, I, I know,

I look back when I was doing the,

751

:

the Fiat operations stuff, I would

not have had time to put together

752

:

homework, review it, discuss it.

753

:

Like it just, it wouldn't

have been an option.

754

:

But if that is an option, And you

have that relationship with your child

755

:

and you can do it then, especially

if you can tie it to something

756

:

they're interested in anyways.

757

:

Right.

758

:

Um, then you can actually do

it more formally as in it's,

759

:

it's like it's literally home

homework, not a school homework.

760

:

And, and then I guess the, I still come

back to what something I said in the

761

:

beginning is we're coming at this at

the, at the, the tail end, we have over,

762

:

you have your, Two decades of teaching.

763

:

We've been through it and we're trying to

talk on this and it would be very helpful

764

:

to actually interview someone who is

actually homeschooling today in a place

765

:

where it's either criminalized or like the

couple can't do it because they're both

766

:

working or whatever the circumstances,

they cannot literally homeschool, but

767

:

they're still doing these other things.

768

:

Types of activities and teaching.

769

:

These things are important.

770

:

If someone, this is to all the listeners

out there, if that's you, or you know,

771

:

somebody who that, that fits that

description, we would love to talk to

772

:

them because we're just trying to think

through this, this topic again, it's

773

:

come up in, in comments, it's come up in

conversations and we feel this is part

774

:

of something that we should include in

understanding Bitcoin homeschooling.

775

:

And that's just something I

just, I put out to the audience.

776

:

If you know someone like that, especially

if it's you reach out to us directly.

777

:

All right.

778

:

With that, Tali, what else do you have?

779

:

I think I feel like we're

at a good wrapping point.

780

:

I just want

781

:

Tali: I just want to say that even though

782

:

Scott: though we

783

:

Tali: are overwhelming you

with a lot of information,

784

:

Scott: The

785

:

Tali: one takeaway, the only key takeaway

is focus on the relationship because,

786

:

because if your relationship is open.

787

:

You've got a chance to communicate,

so focus on that and the

788

:

others will fall into place.

789

:

Like we said in the very beginning

of the podcast, they are drawing

790

:

conclusions all the time.

791

:

You don't have to necessarily be

teaching them something for them

792

:

to absorb what you want them to

absorb because they are watching and

793

:

they're drawing their conclusions.

794

:

Scott: Yeah.

795

:

Great observation.

796

:

Great advice.

797

:

Guys, , we, we love these kind

of, love these kind of topics.

798

:

We're looking forward to helping

as many people as we can.

799

:

Thank you for listening.

800

:

We will catch you again next week.

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About the Podcast

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About your hosts

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Tali Lindberg

Hey there, wonderful listeners! I'm Tali, and I'm so excited to welcome you to our podcast today. For two decades, I was knee-deep in the incredible journey of homeschooling my four amazing kids. It was a world of boundless creativity, filled with lesson plans, school projects, sports, and beautiful chaos. But when my children all graduated, a brand-new, unforeseen adventure awaited me - the captivating world of Bitcoin.

It took three years for Scott to bring me into Bitcoin. I hesitated at first, Bitcoin's intricacies seemed daunting, and my plate was already quite full. But he persisted, going so far as to create a fantastic bitcoin-mining board game called HODL UP to demystify it all. Before I knew it, I was down the Bitcoin rabbit hole. Just like my homeschooling journey, I took it one step at a time, learning and evolving as I ventured further.

Now, here we are today, and I couldn't be more thrilled to be part of the vibrant Bitcoin community. In an unexpected twist, my husband Scott and I realized that our homeschooling experiences can be a treasure trove of insights for Bitcoiners who, like us, want to take charge of their children's education. So, in addition to sharing our Bitcoin knowledge with Precoiners with HODL UP and the Orange Hatter podcast, we're here to offer tips and guidance for Bitcoin-homeschoolers. It's going to be an incredible journey, and I can't wait to share it with all of you. Enjoy the ride!
Profile picture for Scott Lindberg

Scott Lindberg

Scott Lindberg is a freedom-loving entrepreneur, author, and game designer. He is a proponent of finding freedom by taking self-custody of education, money and speech.

He and his wife, Tali, co-founded Free Market Kids. Their passion is to give the next generation the knowledge and tools to maximize their chances for freedom, success and happiness. Free Market Kids makes it easy and fun to introduce money concepts to kids through tabletop games, courses, lesson plans and trusted resources. They are best known for HODL UP™, a Bitcoin mining game.

Scott graduated from the United States Military Academy at West Point in 1993 with a Bachelor of Science in Systems Engineering. In 2001, he graduated Yale’s School of Management with a Master of Business Administration.