₿HS016: Odell Opens the Door for Bitcoin Homeschoolers

Speaker: 00:00:05

one of the things that we talk a

lot about on Dispatch is Is the

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importance of education and everything.

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Like if you look at all the pain

points in our society, it almost always

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goes back to education at some level,

um, whether that is Bitcoin related

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education or any other kind of education.

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And our first child was born, and I

held her in my arms, and I looked at

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her, and I thought to myself, I don't

want her to be raised by somebody else

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You like build it up in your head, right?

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We build up in our heads.

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That's bullshit.

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Obviously, that's not actually real

because 90 percent of the time I was

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in school, I was not learning anything.

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But the truth of the matter is like,

even if you send your kid to, to state

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school, like it's still your fault.

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If the kid turns out bad, like if

your child, like this idea that that

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person doesn't have responsibility is

like this crazy thing that we've just.

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Turned in our in our society

where it's like we have excuses.

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That's not our fault

The teachers are crap,

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Welcome Bitcoin homeschoolers.

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I am so excited to share this episode.

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And to understand why.

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Let me give just a little context here.

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It was exactly one year ago that

tally and I had an experience

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that forever changed our course.

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And it's an event.

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That has opened doors.

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We didn't even know

existed in the last year.

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We've been able to do more

than we ever thought possible.

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So what happened?

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Well, He visited Bitcoin park

and Matt Odell invited us to.

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Come on to Citadel dispatch

to discuss homeschooling.

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With his permission.

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We are replaying Citadel dispatch, 84.

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Uh, Bitcoin homeschoolers.

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On this one-year anniversary.

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So Matt, thank you for being who you are.

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Thank you for having us as your guests.

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And thank you for letting us.

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Replay our first podcast ever for those

who haven't heard this discussion yet.

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You're in for a treat.

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And the key messages have aged very well.

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I think just one important

thing to remember.

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Is this as a replay of the

whole show and it's a live show.

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The introductory comments may no

longer be the best way to support.

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Citadel dispatch.

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Uh, especially thinking of

Twitter, stick to Nasr these days.

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And certainly don't go

looking for the live rooms.

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But with that note, let's jump in.

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Enjoy.

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Happy Bitcoin Saturday freaks.

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It's your boy Odell here with the

first Citadel Dispatch of the new year.

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First of all, Happy New Year to you all.

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Uh, it's going to be a great year.

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And uh, I look forward to living

through it with everybody.

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Citadel Dispatch is a show

focused on actionable discussion

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on Bitcoin and freedom tech.

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I'm your host Odell.

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We do not have ads or sponsors.

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We purely rely on donations from y'all.

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So thank you to everyone who

continues to support the show.

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You can easily support the show

by going to still dispatch.

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com on the bottom.

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It says, contribute Bitcoin

Ron geyser fund now.

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Um, so if you donate Bitcoin through

on chain or lightning, you can attach a

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message, you can sign on with Twitter.

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If you want your little Twitter badge

there, uh, we have a leaderboard, uh,

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you can try and climb the ranks of

the leaderboard, which is pretty cool.

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And also you can support the

show through podcasting 2.

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0 apps, such as fountain

podcasts, breeze wallet.

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podverse.

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fm, echoln.

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com.

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They work like regular podcast apps,

except you load them up with Bitcoin.

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You load them up with sats.

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You decide how many sats per

minute you think the show is worth.

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Um, and then as you listen, those

sats are streamed directly to my node.

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It's extremely empowering, extremely cool.

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To be able to open my Zeus wallet,

connect it to my own node and

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see those stats streaming in

directly from this global audience.

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I do appreciate y'all another

great way to support the show.

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I know it's a bear market.

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I know it's a recession is to simply

subscribe on your favorite platform.

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We're on everything.

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Rumble, Twitter, Twitch.

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YouTube, BitcoinTV.

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com, every podcast app.

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Uh, subscribing does help, leaving

reviews does help, sharing with

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friends and family does help.

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And then last but not least, this

is a live, unedited show with

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direct audience participation.

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I am not the only host.

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Y'all are the hosts as well.

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And I appreciate everyone who

joins us in the live chat, whether

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that's in our Matrix Rooms.

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We have two Matrix Rooms.

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One's encrypted, one's not encrypted.

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There's a whole debate over that.

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I'm not gonna get into it right now.

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And then we also have You can

join the chat on Twitch or YouTube

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and those those chat items.

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I mean, if you're watching

right now, you'll see.

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I'm, we're the only show in Bitcoin

where your chat is live broadcast on.

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It's, anything you say

is in the broadcast.

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So I appreciate you guys for joining us.

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And just know that I'm not

doing any moderation there.

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Sometimes your message from YouTube

or Twitch might not show up.

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That's just the algo messing with you.

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And there's nothing I can do about that.

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I'm, I don't do any

moderation on that front.

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So thank you everyone who

continues to join the live chat.

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I know recently Uh, I've been springing

shows on you guys without too much notice.

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So it means even more when you join

very little notice on a Saturday, but

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we have this fantastic in person studio

at Bitcoin Park in Nashville, and I

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have some great people in town, so we're

going to have this fantastic conversation

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on a Saturday, but before we start.

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Um, another way you can support

the show via Podcasting 2.

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0 is something called Boostergrams.

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Boostergrams allow you to send

a certain amount of Bitcoin.

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You choose how much Bitcoin you want to

send and you can attach a message to it.

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Uh, those messages are

displayed in most Podcasting 2.

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0 apps.

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They're also displayed on GeyserFund.

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So that GeyserFund page you can

get to by going to satsperminute.

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com or going to salesdispatch.

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com and clicking.

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Uh, donate with Bitcoin that actually

shows the leaderboard of the podcasting 2.

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0 people too.

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So like if you go, um, if you're just

streaming sats and you don't put any

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messages, you're actually moving up

the leaderboard on guys are based on

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your podcasting So like our number

two on the leaderboard right now.

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Is at user 8 2 5 6 8 8 4 on

fountain and he has donated.

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Yeah, that's pretty crazy.

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He's he, he has supported the show with

846, 000 sats, almost a million sats just

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from streaming sats or number seven on the

leaderboard is uncle thinks on fountain.

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He's done, it looks like over 260 times.

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He's, he's streamed sats to the

show and almost have 500, 000 sats.

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So thank you freaks.

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For continuing support.

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But before we get started, let me just

read some booster grams as we always do.

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This is a little bit different

because we did take a Christmas break.

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So the last two shows have been,

uh, from Bitcoin Park live events.

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Um, we have at bond with 71, 000

sats on my Bitcoin basics panel.

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I did at the beef initiative at Bitcoin

Park saying the amount of time you

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have dedicated through all various

mediums is incredibly appreciated.

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Thank you for your time, all the

advice, knowledge, and positive

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messages throughout the years.

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Value for value.

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Orange heart.

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Puppy sale.

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Appreciate you, Bond.

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Thank you for the support.

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We have ride or die freak Eric99 with 50,

000 sats saying thanks for all you do.

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Smiley face.

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Then I'm going to go

to the fireside I did.

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With Texas Slim, also at Bitcoin

Park, we have Eric99, once

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again, Rider Dive Freak with stay

humble stack stats, great advice.

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We have Ape Mithrandir, another

Rider Dive Freak with uh,: 2000

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saying Texas Slim speaks very well.

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And then I'm gonna go to our last actual

dispatch that we've had, which was with

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Texas Slim, Cole Bolton, and Jason.

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Um, And we have that user I was talking

: 0826

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saying I love steak with 100, 000 sats.

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And we have our Saris BTC with

55, 555 sats saying awesome

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rip Jason Cole and Slim.

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I can speak to both Jason and Cole's beef.

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They're both amazing.

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Definitely looking forward to

seeing everyone again soon at

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another beef initiative event.

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Thanks Matt for your leadership here.

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So I know this has been a long preamble.

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It was a long holiday.

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I haven't been with you guys for a while.

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Uh, before we jump into the show,

I just want to say, uh, you guys

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make it all worth it, so thank you.

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And then second of all, we have a

crazy week here at Bitcoin Park.

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If you are in the Nashville area,

consider going to bitcoinpark.

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co and seeing our lineup of events.

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We have so many great

Bitcoiners coming into town.

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I've already lined up some

great conversations, uh, that

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are going to be on dispatch.

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We're gonna have Dylan LeClaire

back on Monday at 6:00 PM Central

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Time, 7:00 PM Eastern Time.

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So definitely consider

joining us for that.

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I have a mini script conversation, uh,

jumping into technical Bitcoin with

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Vivic and Rob, um, Rob of anchor watch.

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Uh, that's gonna be on Wednesday

morning, Wednesday morning.

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Yeah, that's going to

be on Wednesday morning.

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I think at 11 central time.

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Sorry that I'm not more

prepared for you freaks.

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And then we have a bunch

more conversations.

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Also, all the conversations that

happen at the park, well most of

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them, without the Q& A component, get

posted to the Bitcoin Park podcast

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feed so you can search Bitcoin Park

in your favorite podcasting app.

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And catch a lot of that content

if you can't join, but it's

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always better to come in person.

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Okay.

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I appreciate you guys for bearing

with me on this long intro.

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We have a great conversation today,

a little bit out of my wheelhouse,

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but something that is very important

and I'm very excited about that is

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homeschooling and also Bitcoin games.

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Bitcoin games can be very helpful

in an educational environment, uh,

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to have this conversation we have.

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Two people that have become very

good friends of mine, uh, just

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from meeting them at Bitcoin Park.

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They drove in, um, they drove into

Bitcoin Park looking to see what

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the Bitcoin community over here was

all about and, uh, we really just

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hit it off a couple months ago.

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Um, we have Scott here.

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How's it going, Scott?

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It's going fantastic.

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Thank you, Scott.

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And Scott's here with

his wonderful wife, Tali.

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How's it going, Tali?

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Really good.

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Happy to be here.

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Love it.

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Love it.

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I think this might be their first podcast.

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Is this your first podcast ever?

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Yes, it is.

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Yes, it is.

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Love it.

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And here to break their podcast virginity

with me is ride or die freak, P.

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How's it going, P?

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It is going fantastically.

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I'm honored to be here, my friend.

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Thanks for inviting me.

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P was sitting in Bitcoin Park, uh, When

we decided that we were going to do

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this dispatch and I roped him into it.

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So very excited to have P here.

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Hell yeah.

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Okay, so we are talking

about homeschooling.

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We are talking about Bitcoin games.

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Before we get started, I just

wanted to say to the freaks, I

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played a lot of Bitcoin games.

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This game that, that Scott

designed is, is simply the best

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Bitcoin game I've ever played.

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But we're not going to start with that.

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What we're going to start

with is homeschooling.

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And why are we going to?

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Why are we going to talk about

homeschooling with this group?

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We're going to talk about homeschooling

with this group because Tali and

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Scott have four children and they

homeschooled all four children.

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So I think that brings, makes you

as close to a homeschooling expert

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as you can possibly be, Tali.

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Um, homeschooling.

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Why should we care?

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Why do you do it?

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Why is it important?

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Well, hello everybody.

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I'm so happy to be here.

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Um, homeschooling For us, when

we first started, it was almost

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an accidental, um, event.

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We weren't planning to do that.

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We were originally going to go

traditional and, you know, send

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the kids to private school, go the

Ivy League route, all that stuff.

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But as the kids got older, we

realized that if we went the

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Structured academic route.

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There were a lot of restrictions

on what the kids can and cannot do.

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It was very almost conveyor belt

like, you know, the kids are moved

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from one stage to another stage and

with very little variation allowed

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in what they're supposed to be doing.

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So an example would be when my, my

oldest was three and I was thinking

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about putting her in preschool.

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I toured the local preschools.

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Like every single one of them and I

interviewed the principals and the

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teachers and I just specifically remember

this one school that I stopped at.

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The principal was English, her, you know,

she sounded really intelligent and we were

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walking down the hall and she was pointing

at all the different artwork and, and, uh,

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ABCs and words that they were learning.

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And I asked her this one question, I

said, do you teach your kids to read?

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These are three, four, five year olds.

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And I will never forget her answer to me.

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She said, Oh, no, no,

no, we don't do that.

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And I asked her why.

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And she said, well, we don't want

them to be bored in kindergarten.

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What?

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And I said, so if a child is ready

and willing, you would purposefully

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not teach that child to read.

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And she said, yes, because we

don't want them to be bored.

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And that just blew my mind.

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It absolutely blew my mind.

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My oldest was three.

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I had already been teaching her ABCs and.

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So I, I didn't send her to that preschool.

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I did end up taking her, my oldest to

a different preschool and while the

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other kids were learning how to spell

cat with the, you know, it's the C A T

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and their B is for boy and D is for dog.

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That kind of thing.

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She was already reading chapter

books because I taught her as

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she was ready to move forward.

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Not because I said, okay, wait,

you're four and you should be

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able to only do this amount.

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And so I'm going to stop there.

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You let the child lead, and that's,

that's been the best experience that we've

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been able to enjoy is let the child lead

when they're ready to go forward, you

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move them forward, but if they have some

trouble, if they're not language inclined,

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they're more mathematically challenged,

then you just say, okay, if the addition

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doesn't make sense to you right now,

you Explain it to them a different way

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or you use a different method or you,

for example, for our boys, they're

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very active when they do school work.

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It's really helpful to allow

them to move, which is not

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possible in the school system.

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So, for example, are our second oldest.

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He memorized the multiplication

table while he was jumping on our

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sofa and it just worked for him.

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But that's just, he's literally just

jumping up and down on the sofa.

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He was jumping on the table.

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Yes, that was how he recited

and that was fine with me.

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I don't care how he learns it,

just learn it, you know, and if he

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doesn't get it, then we do it again.

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I see P's mind running.

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He's like, damn, I think I

can learn things that way.

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Yeah, exactly.

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What's going through my mind?

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He did.

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Whatever it was, as long

as he was doing his thing.

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Hold it closer to your mouth.

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Sorry.

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Yeah.

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And also, also you don't, we, we don't

agree in grading, especially when

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the kids are learning a new skill.

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We want to give them feedback by

saying, okay, that didn't work.

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Let's try it again.

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But if you give them a grade, which I

think a lot of schools are really quick

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to do, they label themselves immediately.

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So if you say, okay, you haven't

memorized the multiplication table,

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: 00:16:19

I give you your test, you get an 83.

329

: 00:16:21

Right.

330

: 00:16:22

That's a passable grade.

331

: 00:16:23

You move on the parts

that they didn't get.

332

: 00:16:27

That could be really key for the

next phase of their education,

333

: 00:16:30

but they just, they get moved on.

334

: 00:16:32

But in the homeschooling environment,

you get to say, okay, you didn't get

335

: 00:16:36

17 percent of what you were tested.

336

: 00:16:38

Let's go back and revisit the 17%.

337

: 00:16:41

And there's no labeling.

338

: 00:16:42

There's no, you're a B student.

339

: 00:16:43

You're a C student.

340

: 00:16:44

It doesn't matter.

341

: 00:16:45

Let's get it all completely

mastered a hundred percent.

342

: 00:16:48

And then you move on and.

343

: 00:16:51

I feel like that gives the children

freedom to make mistakes, and it's through

344

: 00:16:57

the mistakes that we learn the fastest.

345

: 00:16:59

But I think our school systems teach the

kids to be afraid of mistakes because

346

: 00:17:03

they have the report card that they

have to bring home to their parents, you

347

: 00:17:07

know, and they're labeled immediately.

348

: 00:17:10

I'm good at math.

349

: 00:17:10

I'm not good at math.

350

: 00:17:11

I'm good at English.

351

: 00:17:12

I'm not good.

352

: 00:17:12

You don't need to do that, really.

353

: 00:17:14

I don't believe that.

354

: 00:17:15

Right.

355

: 00:17:15

I mean, one of the things that we

talk a lot about on Dispatch is Is the

356

: 00:17:19

importance of education and everything.

357

: 00:17:21

Like if you look at all the pain

points in our society, it almost always

358

: 00:17:25

goes back to education at some level,

um, whether that is Bitcoin related

359

: 00:17:30

education or any other kind of education.

360

: 00:17:33

With the beef initiative, we

talk about lack of, uh, food

361

: 00:17:37

intelligence, lack of this idea

of where does your food come from?

362

: 00:17:39

What is good quality food?

363

: 00:17:41

Like, how do you, how are you nutritious?

364

: 00:17:42

And you go right back.

365

: 00:17:43

It's education, education, education.

366

: 00:17:46

Um, but meanwhile.

367

: 00:17:48

Like the core of our society's education

system is this, is this government

368

: 00:17:53

school system, right, which is basically

geared to the lowest common denominator.

369

: 00:17:59

It's not really geared

to individual students.

370

: 00:18:01

You said this term child led learning.

371

: 00:18:04

Mm hmm.

372

: 00:18:05

Um, and I feel like that is really,

that captures, that, that captures

373

: 00:18:09

the value prop, this idea that Mm hmm.

374

: 00:18:12

It is actual education that's

geared to these individual, your

375

: 00:18:16

individual children, not just

this concept of children, right?

376

: 00:18:21

Like this, like everybody has to be at

least average in all kinds of subjects.

377

: 00:18:27

And one of the books that I read really

early on when the kids were little

378

: 00:18:31

was a book by Jennifer Fox and it's

called finding your child's strength.

379

: 00:18:35

And she talked about how going

forward when we compete against.

380

: 00:18:40

The world, the whole entire world,

when you're talking about job, you

381

: 00:18:44

know, job seeker and, you know,

corporations and whatever, you,

382

: 00:18:49

you think about competing against

every country under the sun, right?

383

: 00:18:55

Who has access to the internet

and you can't be average.

384

: 00:18:59

You have to be superb.

385

: 00:19:02

In an area, and in order for you to do

that, you have to be allowed to pour

386

: 00:19:07

your time and effort into that one area.

387

: 00:19:09

So for example, right now, I think,

generally speaking, people believe

388

: 00:19:14

that kids have to achieve a certain

level of math accomplishment, right?

389

: 00:19:18

Whether it's algebra or

pre algebra, whatever.

390

: 00:19:22

But is that absolutely necessary?

391

: 00:19:24

Because it's not.

392

: 00:19:25

How many life skills actually

require the knowledge of algebra

393

: 00:19:30

and how many job skills actually

require the knowledge of algebra.

394

: 00:19:33

And yet we spent so much time making sure

that every single child has that level.

395

: 00:19:40

But if they use that same amount of

time in an area that child is already

396

: 00:19:45

strong at and naturally inclined to excel

at, then how much further can they go

397

: 00:19:50

with that same amount of time invested?

398

: 00:19:52

So that's a, that's a really

great book, I think, for your

399

: 00:19:55

listeners to maybe check out.

400

: 00:19:57

Um, but that was really impactful

for me to not try to get my kids

401

: 00:20:02

up to like some average level for

every single subject, but to really

402

: 00:20:07

pick an area and excel in it.

403

: 00:20:09

So, I mean, you've never done this before.

404

: 00:20:11

This is the first time you've

homeschooled children, presumably.

405

: 00:20:15

What was your, what was

your background before you?

406

: 00:20:18

My background, uh, I actually met my

husband at business school, and the,

407

: 00:20:25

our plan always was I was going to go

into investment banking, and our plan

408

: 00:20:31

was always have a child, you know, stay

at home for a few months, get a nanny,

409

: 00:20:35

and then I was going to go back to work.

410

: 00:20:38

And our first child was born, and I held

her in my arms, and I looked at her, and

411

: 00:20:42

I thought to myself, I don't want her

to be raised by somebody else because

412

: 00:20:49

if I went back to investment banking,

I was going to leave the house before

413

: 00:20:53

she woke up and I was going to come home

after she went to bed and I was never

414

: 00:20:56

going to see her and she was not going

to know who I am and I won't know her.

415

: 00:21:00

So we talked about it and decided that.

416

: 00:21:05

He was gonna just be a single single

income earner and uh, and I was gonna

417

: 00:21:10

stay home with the kids Well at the

time one kid, but yeah And then we like

418

: 00:21:15

I said before we fell into this whole

homeschooling thing because I didn't know

419

: 00:21:19

it was an option and then when I knew it

was an option, I thought you had to have

420

: 00:21:23

a teacher's degree, but Since we started

into it, I realized that there are so many

421

: 00:21:30

options under the sun, so many different

combinations of ways to homeschool your

422

: 00:21:34

child, and you can always outsource

a subject that you're not good at.

423

: 00:21:38

There's so many resources out

there, there's so much support,

424

: 00:21:41

and there's a huge community, and

the number one com Not complain.

425

: 00:21:46

Number one concern that our families

have when we decide to homeschool was

426

: 00:21:50

your child is going to be a hermit,

you know, he she will not be able to to

427

: 00:21:54

have hold a conversation with anybody.

428

: 00:21:57

And that is the farthest

thing from the truth.

429

: 00:21:59

If you ever meet a homeschool

child, they can talk to anybody

430

: 00:22:05

because they're a hermit.

431

: 00:22:06

In the world with their parents, they are

interacting with people of all ages, of

432

: 00:22:11

all capacity, all roles, all the time.

433

: 00:22:14

They're not stuck in a classroom

in a teacher student peer

434

: 00:22:19

situation most of the day.

435

: 00:22:21

They are out there interacting.

436

: 00:22:23

And so they actually are

much more comfortable.

437

: 00:22:27

Interacting with people socially

than I would say a typical student.

438

: 00:22:32

I mean, you brought your kids to

Bitcoin Park the other day and

439

: 00:22:35

they were building seed signers.

440

: 00:22:36

Yep.

441

: 00:22:37

Building their own hardware wall.

442

: 00:22:39

That's interesting.

443

: 00:22:40

One thing that you mentioned was, um, the

idea of allowing your children to focus

444

: 00:22:48

in on the areas that they are specifically

excited about or interested in.

445

: 00:22:51

How do you find the balance between, um,

encouraging them to also You know, learn

446

: 00:22:57

things that don't come as naturally to

them or that they get bored of easily.

447

: 00:23:00

And I'm asking as a person who

experienced this a lot as a child.

448

: 00:23:04

Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure.

449

: 00:23:06

So.

450

: 00:23:07

So I do, I encourage them to pursue

what they're interested in because we

451

: 00:23:11

have the time to do it because they

are not spending The time commuting on

452

: 00:23:15

the school bus going to school and you

know going from class to class So they

453

: 00:23:18

do have more time to do that but at the

same time I'm Chinese and so the whole

454

: 00:23:24

tiger mom thing comes into play just

a little bit and Discipline was a huge

455

: 00:23:29

huge thing that I talked about with

the kids and I remember specifically

456

: 00:23:34

Brianna would be very unwilling.

457

: 00:23:36

She, this is not a competitive person,

but we put them in sports for, you know,

458

: 00:23:40

physical fitness, things like that.

459

: 00:23:42

And when she would be

hesitant because she.

460

: 00:23:47

wasn't sure she was going to win or

something required her to practice

461

: 00:23:52

longer, like piano or something

longer than she thought she should.

462

: 00:23:55

Then the discipline comes into play.

463

: 00:23:58

And I would tell her it's easy for

you to do things that are easy to you.

464

: 00:24:03

It's hardest for you to do something.

465

: 00:24:06

That you don't want to do, do, you

don't want to do, but you should

466

: 00:24:10

do, and you find challenging.

467

: 00:24:13

And I did give them a

lot of lectures on that.

468

: 00:24:17

So really focusing in on the value of

discipline, using those as opportunities

469

: 00:24:22

to hone that skill set specifically.

470

: 00:24:24

Yes, for the purpose of discipline,

not for the purpose of, I think

471

: 00:24:28

you should be a master musician

because you're just supposed to,

472

: 00:24:33

nothing, not, not for that reason.

473

: 00:24:35

Yeah, absolutely.

474

: 00:24:36

But I think that that

sense of discipline is.

475

: 00:24:39

Often lacking in students today because

there's so many people who just say,

476

: 00:24:42

I'm not good at math and therefore they

just kind of toss it out the window

477

: 00:24:46

and that I'm just not good at that.

478

: 00:24:48

I mean, the other thing we talked about

a lot on dispatch is, uh, this idea

479

: 00:24:53

of personal responsibility and this

idea that society has kind of groomed

480

: 00:24:56

personal responsibility out of us.

481

: 00:24:58

And I mean, you see that in the

government school system, right?

482

: 00:25:00

It's like the teachers aren't

responsible for the kids because the

483

: 00:25:04

parents are helicoptering parenting,

but then the parents aren't.

484

: 00:25:07

responsible for the kids because

they're in school with the teacher.

485

: 00:25:10

So it's like, who is actually

responsible for the kid's education?

486

: 00:25:12

Is it the person setting, you know, the

standard bodies over in Washington, um,

487

: 00:25:16

on what their test scores should be?

488

: 00:25:18

And all of a sudden you end up

in a situation where nobody's

489

: 00:25:21

responsible for the child, right?

490

: 00:25:22

The child is responsible for themselves.

491

: 00:25:25

Um, and it's just a

completely broken incentives.

492

: 00:25:27

Yeah, I think it'd be really tough for

a teacher to have 30 students there.

493

: 00:25:33

I mean, I empathize with that.

494

: 00:25:34

That would be really hard.

495

: 00:25:36

I just can't imagine that they

would have the time to say,

496

: 00:25:39

You know, this just happened.

497

: 00:25:41

Let's take a moment and

talk about responsibility.

498

: 00:25:44

Whereas your homeschooling, if you ask

our kids, everything was a lecture.

499

: 00:25:48

Right?

500

: 00:25:48

It was.

501

: 00:25:50

You get to take the garbage cans out.

502

: 00:25:51

Why did you not do that?

503

: 00:25:53

You know, and it could be a ten minute

discussion on doing the right thing.

504

: 00:25:56

Even if it was cold

outside or whatever it is.

505

: 00:25:59

And so you, you're shaping their framework

on how they view things and you just.

506

: 00:26:06

They're going to pick that up from

somewhere, so it's probably going

507

: 00:26:08

to be their peers or whatever social

media or whatever it is that they get,

508

: 00:26:13

they're, they're paying attention to,

but when you're homeschooling, you have

509

: 00:26:16

the opportunity to say, let me give

you a viewpoint on how you approach

510

: 00:26:20

difficulty, responsibility, fill in the

blank with whatever you, you want, you

511

: 00:26:25

get, you're the one that gets to shape.

512

: 00:26:27

The framework that they're going

to use for other decisions and

513

: 00:26:29

when you're not there to help them.

514

: 00:26:32

Do you think that's the biggest hurdle

for maybe young parents that want

515

: 00:26:36

to do homeschooling is, is, is that?

516

: 00:26:41

All the discipline

responsibilities on them.

517

: 00:26:44

It's like, that's something you

can't like learn in a book, right?

518

: 00:26:47

That's like, uh, you have to

actually be willing to do it.

519

: 00:26:51

Yeah, I think it's fear.

520

: 00:26:53

And I think there's an unrealistic

expectation that you have to

521

: 00:26:56

be the expert on every subject.

522

: 00:26:58

Right.

523

: 00:26:58

Like, oh, I couldn't teach

biology or whatever it was.

524

: 00:27:01

And Tali's right, you can outsource.

525

: 00:27:04

Almost any subject.

526

: 00:27:05

So how does that look, the outsource?

527

: 00:27:07

Right.

528

: 00:27:08

Kids gonna learn biology.

529

: 00:27:09

You're not a biologist.

530

: 00:27:11

Right, so I think most cities

would have homeschooler co ops.

531

: 00:27:15

And also, a lot of private

schools would offer cottage

532

: 00:27:19

school programs for homeschoolers.

533

: 00:27:21

So it's almost like part time.

534

: 00:27:23

Private school.

535

: 00:27:24

So, for example, in Louisville, there

is a place where I think a lot of, um,

536

: 00:27:29

homeschoolers with high school kids

would send their kids to, and they go

537

: 00:27:32

to school two days a week, and they

do their homework at home three days a

538

: 00:27:36

week, and the parents don't teach at all.

539

: 00:27:38

They monitor.

540

: 00:27:39

Right.

541

: 00:27:40

So that's, that's an option.

542

: 00:27:42

And then you can also do

So that's not what you do.

543

: 00:27:45

I didn't, I did some of that.

544

: 00:27:47

Okay.

545

: 00:27:48

For example, I wanted the kids to

learn Latin, and I was not about to go

546

: 00:27:51

teach them Latin, because I, I don't.

547

: 00:27:53

No, Latin.

548

: 00:27:54

I also try to teach them science

in the very beginning, but the

549

: 00:27:57

setup and prepping for the science

experiments took so much time.

550

: 00:28:02

I just couldn't do it.

551

: 00:28:03

So I outsourced those.

552

: 00:28:05

Musical theater, I think is super,

super important for literally everybody

553

: 00:28:08

because it teaches them how to Get

over stage fright, present themselves,

554

: 00:28:13

uh, speak well in front of people.

555

: 00:28:15

So I think that's really important,

but you can't do that at home.

556

: 00:28:17

So I send them to a co op to do musical

theater, drama, that type of stuff.

557

: 00:28:23

So yeah, just combination.

558

: 00:28:24

There's so many resources out there.

559

: 00:28:26

Is there's no reason for anybody

to be afraid of it unless they

560

: 00:28:30

just haven't been directed where

to go and look for solutions.

561

: 00:28:34

Interesting.

562

: 00:28:35

Do you feel like, do you feel like the

experience of being an educator or really

563

: 00:28:42

adopting the role as educator rather

than only as parent has changed the

564

: 00:28:46

way That you view your own education.

565

: 00:28:50

Oh, absolutely.

566

: 00:28:51

I think we grew more than the kids did.

567

: 00:28:54

I don't, I had no idea of

going into it what to expect.

568

: 00:29:00

But it, yeah, it's just,

you have to go through it.

569

: 00:29:03

You have to experience it.

570

: 00:29:04

It's hard to.

571

: 00:29:04

If I told you how to do a podcast

versus you actually having to set it

572

: 00:29:09

up and having to do it, um, there's

something in the actual action

573

: 00:29:14

and being responsible for that.

574

: 00:29:16

But I have no formal podcast education.

575

: 00:29:19

No, just trial by fire.

576

: 00:29:21

And that's true for parenting.

577

: 00:29:22

Really.

578

: 00:29:23

It really is.

579

: 00:29:24

And homeschooling, I think

is exactly the same thing.

580

: 00:29:28

And I think I had more fun than

my kids when I was homeschooling

581

: 00:29:31

because I was learning so much.

582

: 00:29:33

I learned more trying to, Learn

enough to teach them than I did going

583

: 00:29:38

through all the branding schools

and I would take a book and instead

584

: 00:29:43

of handing it over to them, I would

read and be like, this is so cool.

585

: 00:29:47

I love this book.

586

: 00:29:48

You know, I will order books and they will

come in, you know, in the, in the boxes

587

: 00:29:52

and I'll open like, I love these books.

588

: 00:29:54

And I would just hug them.

589

: 00:29:56

I get so excited, I get so excited.

590

: 00:29:58

That's fantastic.

591

: 00:30:01

What's been the hardest thing for you to.

592

: 00:30:05

Do as part of this process, what's

been the most challenging aspect

593

: 00:30:07

of homeschooling your children?

594

: 00:30:11

I think it doesn't have to

do with homeschooling per se.

595

: 00:30:13

To me, the biggest challenge was I had

switched jobs a couple times and Tali

596

: 00:30:19

took, she spent hours and hours and

hours trying to find the right activities

597

: 00:30:23

and the right resources in an area.

598

: 00:30:26

And when you disrupt that, um, If,

you know, if I could go back, I think

599

: 00:30:31

that might be one thing that I would

try to change because it, it disrupted

600

: 00:30:35

all those things and you have to kind

of like reset and restart and restart

601

: 00:30:40

the actual, the actual teaching part.

602

: 00:30:44

It's not, I mean, kids are

really resilient, right?

603

: 00:30:46

If you, if you messed up and you

didn't teach whatever you thought

604

: 00:30:49

you were going to teach them, like

they're just really resilient and

605

: 00:30:53

you can catch up on almost anything.

606

: 00:30:55

Plus homeschools 365, it's not

like you have this, Oh, the

607

: 00:30:59

summer they're, they're off.

608

: 00:31:00

Our kids didn't understand

what a vacation was.

609

: 00:31:02

Because Tali just kept on going and

if we were taking time off because

610

: 00:31:07

we wanted to go do a trip, we did it.

611

: 00:31:08

We had that flexibility.

612

: 00:31:10

But it wasn't like the

same time every year.

613

: 00:31:11

No.

614

: 00:31:12

And it was, you know, it

could be the middle of summer.

615

: 00:31:14

They didn't understand that, wait,

other people are not in school.

616

: 00:31:18

So you're, you, there's no, when I

grew up, that was like the best feeling

617

: 00:31:22

ever, that, the day before summer break.

618

: 00:31:27

Yeah, my poor kids never knew that.

619

: 00:31:28

You know, you all run out, you all run out

of school together, just like screaming.

620

: 00:31:33

School's out, school's out.

621

: 00:31:35

Um, I, going back to your question, Pete,

about the challenges, I think, I think

622

: 00:31:40

the, the biggest challenge was feeling

100 percent responsible for your child

623

: 00:31:46

and how they, Hopefully children and

how they turn out because I have nobody

624

: 00:31:51

to blame except myself because I'm it.

625

: 00:31:54

I am the parent.

626

: 00:31:55

I'm the teacher.

627

: 00:31:55

I'm the principal.

628

: 00:31:56

I'm the counselor.

629

: 00:31:56

I am everything and there were so

many times when I wanted to quit.

630

: 00:32:02

There were so many times when I just

I was talking to Scott Lee and I'll

631

: 00:32:05

be like, I, I can't do it anymore.

632

: 00:32:08

I have, I have to send them to

school because I'm going to go crazy.

633

: 00:32:12

But it was more.

634

: 00:32:13

It was not because the

kids were difficult.

635

: 00:32:15

It was.

636

: 00:32:16

All the pressure on myself that I had

to make sure they were emotionally

637

: 00:32:20

healthy and they were physically healthy.

638

: 00:32:22

So I'm trying to cook the dinner

while they are doing their homework.

639

: 00:32:25

I never got a break.

640

: 00:32:26

There was no break for me because

it was when they were investing.

641

: 00:32:30

I was prepping for class

when they were doing class.

642

: 00:32:32

I was cooking when I was driving.

643

: 00:32:34

I was memorizing poems with

them when I was driving.

644

: 00:32:38

I was playing.

645

: 00:32:39

It was like there was no break.

646

: 00:32:40

So that was the biggest challenge.

647

: 00:32:41

And for anybody who's thinking about

homeschooling out there, I would just

648

: 00:32:46

say, take care of yourself first.

649

: 00:32:48

That's number one.

650

: 00:32:49

And in what way?

651

: 00:32:51

As in.

652

: 00:32:52

Yes, you are responsible a hundred

percent, but you can outsource and,

653

: 00:32:58

and you don't need to be perfect.

654

: 00:33:00

I think that's the biggest

message I want to tell people.

655

: 00:33:02

You don't have to be perfect and

your kids will turn out great.

656

: 00:33:08

So don't, don't be too hard on

yourself is my impression is some

657

: 00:33:12

people think homeschoolers They just

let their kids do nothing all day.

658

: 00:33:17

They're just sitting around.

659

: 00:33:18

My impression is the opposite.

660

: 00:33:20

They're really intense.

661

: 00:33:21

The kind of the tiger mom type of

thing that Tali's talking about.

662

: 00:33:25

And you put these expectations on yourself

that are so hard that you're just like,

663

: 00:33:29

well, I can fit one more activity in.

664

: 00:33:31

I can do one more thing.

665

: 00:33:32

And it's the self pressure

that you're right.

666

: 00:33:34

They're competing with these

kids in school that are just

667

: 00:33:36

constantly learning all the time.

668

: 00:33:37

You like build it up in your head, right?

669

: 00:33:39

We build up in our heads.

670

: 00:33:40

That's bullshit.

671

: 00:33:40

Obviously, that's not actually real

because 90 percent of the time I was

672

: 00:33:45

in school, I was not learning anything.

673

: 00:33:46

Right.

674

: 00:33:47

It was just like, absolutely.

675

: 00:33:48

Yeah.

676

: 00:33:48

I think when we first started, um,

some of the season homeschooling

677

: 00:33:52

mamas were saying, don't think

you're not doing enough because

678

: 00:33:56

you're already doing more than what.

679

: 00:34:00

Other kids are getting in school because

there's so much travel time, transition

680

: 00:34:04

time, uh, you know, going from class to

class, and then setting up, taking down,

681

: 00:34:08

all that stuff, and we, because we don't

have to do that, we were already ahead

682

: 00:34:15

by several hours per day, and then the

individual attention we give to the kids

683

: 00:34:20

far surpasses how many hours they sit

in the classroom in a corner at a desk.

684

: 00:34:26

Yeah, it's almost, I think it's almost

ironic, you know, the self pressure about.

685

: 00:34:30

The responsibility of what you

have and to me, and I can say this

686

: 00:34:34

because it's a Bitcoin audience.

687

: 00:34:35

It's like yourself.

688

: 00:34:36

You're taking self custody of

your education and you're, yeah,

689

: 00:34:39

there's so much overlap there.

690

: 00:34:41

You're, you're being responsible.

691

: 00:34:43

You're, you're responsible for it.

692

: 00:34:45

And um, I don't know, I have some

other things on that depending

693

: 00:34:49

where you want to go with it.

694

: 00:34:50

Well, that's like what Tali was saying

where she's like, one of the biggest

695

: 00:34:52

hurdles is that you feel this immense

personal responsibility over everything.

696

: 00:34:57

Because there's no one else to blame.

697

: 00:34:58

But the truth of the matter is like,

even if you send your kid to, to state

698

: 00:35:02

school, like it's still your fault.

699

: 00:35:05

If the kid turns out bad, like if

your child, like this idea that that

700

: 00:35:08

person doesn't have responsibility is

like this crazy thing that we've just.

701

: 00:35:13

Turned in our in our society

where it's like we have excuses.

702

: 00:35:16

That's not our fault The teachers are

crap, you know, this is bad all these

703

: 00:35:21

reasons why the kid turned out bad not

that you know You were not a responsible

704

: 00:35:25

parent in the first place Yeah, right And

I think really all kids want to know is

705

: 00:35:30

that they matter to you and it's how do

you demonstrate that they matter to you?

706

: 00:35:34

You spend time with them and that's

one of the things that that I've

707

: 00:35:38

just recently started to really

think about is this whole quality

708

: 00:35:43

versus quantity of time discussion.

709

: 00:35:45

I think there's been this really

huge push for people to believe

710

: 00:35:50

that they can have it all.

711

: 00:35:52

They can have the career and the

family and be parents and everything.

712

: 00:35:57

The most important part is the quality

time, you know, you, you take them out on

713

: 00:36:00

a trip and you spend quality time or you

take them bowling and it's quality time

714

: 00:36:05

and I'm not saying any of that is bad.

715

: 00:36:06

It's all very important, but there are

quantity of time that just needs to be

716

: 00:36:12

there so that you can notice the little

things because live The little things

717

: 00:36:16

like if your child has a nosebleed and

you're there and you're holding the

718

: 00:36:21

tissue of the nose and go, this is how

you apply pressure, like little things

719

: 00:36:24

like that, they add up and then they

trust you and they tell you stuff.

720

: 00:36:29

And the discussions that we have.

721

: 00:36:32

Over the kitchen counter, I

think, have been so key, a part

722

: 00:36:37

of the homeschooling education.

723

: 00:36:39

It's not just about the economics at all,

because in the end, how well you read or

724

: 00:36:45

how well you can write essays, it just

doesn't matter as much as do they believe

725

: 00:36:50

they matter, number one, to their parents,

and also how do they interpret the world

726

: 00:36:56

around them, right, in a healthy way.

727

: 00:36:59

And I think a lot of young

people are really missing that.

728

: 00:37:02

They have been.

729

: 00:37:03

Their parents at least buy into the

quality time thing so they take the the

730

: 00:37:07

family trips and they take the family

photos and it's everything looks really

731

: 00:37:10

pretty but inside they don't have the

the little moments that added up give

732

: 00:37:20

some guidance and so then they rely on

their peers but it's kind of like Young

733

: 00:37:24

people leading young people sometimes

can feel like the blind leading the

734

: 00:37:27

blind, because nobody knows more.

735

: 00:37:29

Nobody knows more.

736

: 00:37:30

And then they go on social

media, which is even scarier.

737

: 00:37:33

But your parents love you and they have

wisdom, you know, of several decades

738

: 00:37:38

over your current life experience.

739

: 00:37:40

And if they're not able to share that

with the kids, I think it's so easy

740

: 00:37:44

for the kids to be swayed by what's

going on in society that in most

741

: 00:37:48

of it is not very helpful to them.

742

: 00:37:51

Yeah.

743

: 00:37:52

If I could.

744

: 00:37:53

Maybe use that to highlight the

negative side that you try to avoid too.

745

: 00:37:57

So we've been talking, and

I love it, focusing on the

746

: 00:37:59

positives of homeschooling.

747

: 00:38:01

Let's dive in.

748

: 00:38:02

There's a negative that you avoid too.

749

: 00:38:06

So there, in my view, it's like the,

you know, you talk about separation

750

: 00:38:09

of, of government and money.

751

: 00:38:12

It's, in this case, it's separation

of the government and school.

752

: 00:38:15

Right.

753

: 00:38:15

Education.

754

: 00:38:16

And it's like indoctrination, right?

755

: 00:38:18

So, so not only are they not

teaching about how money is, And

756

: 00:38:22

we, like, we bought games to teach

money when the kids were young

757

: 00:38:25

and that's not surprising, right?

758

: 00:38:27

Um, so it's, you're, you're lacking that,

but they're also picking up other things.

759

: 00:38:31

There could be an agenda

from the, the teacher.

760

: 00:38:34

There can be an agenda that comes

down as part of the, the curricula.

761

: 00:38:37

There could be, there's a lot of things

that you can avoid that when you, when

762

: 00:38:43

you don't homeschool, you're, you're

basically saying, I trust somebody else.

763

: 00:38:47

I'm going to trust that they're

going to guide my kids correctly.

764

: 00:38:50

I'm going to trust that

they're going to teach them.

765

: 00:38:53

The right way of looking at

history, the right way of looking

766

: 00:38:55

at fill in the blank type of thing.

767

: 00:38:59

And so it's the flip side of you get to

do all the positive things, you also get

768

: 00:39:02

to avoid some of the things where you're

relying on trust on someone else to do it.

769

: 00:39:06

Yeah, I mean a key aspect of, of

government schooling is, is to get

770

: 00:39:10

children To respect, you know, uh,

respect authority and be a be a

771

: 00:39:17

quote unquote functioning member of

society that doesn't ask questions.

772

: 00:39:20

That's just willing to go

along with what's best for the

773

: 00:39:23

country, so to speak, right?

774

: 00:39:25

It's like a social score, right?

775

: 00:39:26

Yeah, that's like that.

776

: 00:39:27

That is one of the reasons why you see

these these state school systems got

777

: 00:39:31

built out in the first place, right?

778

: 00:39:33

Was like, how do we take These

millions of people, um, and

779

: 00:39:37

have them all work together for

the best for the state, right?

780

: 00:39:40

Turn them into a

productive economic asset.

781

: 00:39:42

Yeah, because we talk about, we talk

about incentives all the time, right?

782

: 00:39:45

And Bitcoin and, and it's the

same, same situation here is, is

783

: 00:39:50

what are, what are the incentives?

784

: 00:39:52

Are the incentives flawed?

785

: 00:39:53

Are they broken?

786

: 00:39:54

Uh, or do they make sense, right?

787

: 00:39:55

And if you, if you talk about parents

with their children, I mean, they have the

788

: 00:39:59

strongest incentive alignment possible.

789

: 00:40:02

Like you want your kids to be the

best they can possibly be, um, and

790

: 00:40:06

ultimately it goes all the way to

the point of you're going to be old

791

: 00:40:10

at some point and then they're going

to be taking care of you, right?

792

: 00:40:12

So you have massive skin in the game.

793

: 00:40:15

While if you look at school systems,

what are their incentives, right?

794

: 00:40:17

Their incentives are no

one acts out of line.

795

: 00:40:21

You want everyone to be, you know,

quote unquote, functionally members of

796

: 00:40:25

society that don't cause disruptions

that are just productive economic units.

797

: 00:40:31

Yeah.

798

: 00:40:31

Incentives.

799

: 00:40:32

I agree.

800

: 00:40:32

Yeah.

801

: 00:40:33

Yeah.

802

: 00:40:33

I mean, in the traditional school

system, the goal is to basically

803

: 00:40:35

keep people occupied because you get

paid for every day that the student

804

: 00:40:37

is in the school rather than Yeah.

805

: 00:40:39

That's the incentive.

806

: 00:40:40

Yeah.

807

: 00:40:40

So, so I have.

808

: 00:40:42

A follow up question to that, because I

was actually going to go in that route,

809

: 00:40:46

uh, before you brought it up, Scott.

810

: 00:40:48

And so the follow up question is, as

Bitcoiners, obviously, I think, in

811

: 00:40:53

general, we self select for people

that are contrarian, that go against

812

: 00:40:57

authority, that think outside the box.

813

: 00:40:59

We value that as a very positive trait.

814

: 00:41:02

Um, now, if most children aren't that,

And I actually saw it when I was raised

815

: 00:41:08

like up until, uh, I mean, 2008 was a big,

you know, curtain draw for me that A lot

816

: 00:41:17

of what we were taught was bullshit and,

you know, there aren't really adults in

817

: 00:41:21

the room that know what they're talking

about and, and that, you know, society

818

: 00:41:25

is like this massive house of cards that

we all pretend is not a house of cards.

819

: 00:41:29

But up until that point,

I was very indoctrinated.

820

: 00:41:31

You know, I was very rah rah America.

821

: 00:41:34

Um, I told my mom at one

point I want to join the army.

822

: 00:41:37

She told me essentially to go fuck myself.

823

: 00:41:40

Um, did you know I was

in the army by the way?

824

: 00:41:43

I did not know that.

825

: 00:41:44

Um, so anyway, my question was, so

I kind of came to it myself after

826

: 00:41:48

most of my government schooling, but

my question is a child that Isn't

827

: 00:41:56

subservient in that way, right?

828

: 00:41:58

Isn't indoctrinated.

829

: 00:42:00

Are there, have you no,

obviously we know the positive

830

: 00:42:03

points that can come from that.

831

: 00:42:05

I, I, I wonder, do you notice like

negative points where someone of that

832

: 00:42:10

age is like thinking for themselves

maybe a little bit too much?

833

: 00:42:14

Like, I don't know, like, is that,

do you, does that make sense?

834

: 00:42:16

Do you want to, do you want to go first?

835

: 00:42:18

Yeah.

836

: 00:42:18

Why don't you go first?

837

: 00:42:20

I can only speak to my own four kids

and I'm actually really happy that.

838

: 00:42:26

They think outside the box.

839

: 00:42:28

They do because when they graduated high

school, I sent them overseas I wanted

840

: 00:42:34

them to get out of the homeschooling

community the Christian community and I

841

: 00:42:37

told them the world is very big and this

is a very tiny part of it and you need to

842

: 00:42:41

go see and They each came back and said

we don't like what we saw because it's

843

: 00:42:48

really sad, you know I think Brianna was

sent to London during COVID and she, you

844

: 00:42:58

know, in the UK, the drinking age is 18.

845

: 00:43:00

Right.

846

: 00:43:00

Right.

847

: 00:43:01

And so these are pre freshman

kids, they're mostly 18,

848

: 00:43:05

they're so excited, right?

849

: 00:43:07

They get to the airport,

they get to the hotel.

850

: 00:43:09

I mean, they're When you say they,

was she part of a larger group?

851

: 00:43:11

She was part of an educational group.

852

: 00:43:13

She got there and everybody split.

853

: 00:43:16

Everybody went to the pub.

854

: 00:43:17

Right.

855

: 00:43:18

To get drunk.

856

: 00:43:19

And she called us and I said,

What are you doing calling us?

857

: 00:43:23

This is your first night there.

858

: 00:43:24

Aren't you supposed to be hanging

out with your new friends?

859

: 00:43:26

And she goes, Everybody's gone.

860

: 00:43:28

What?

861

: 00:43:29

So then it was a whole semester of

people throwing up in the hallway,

862

: 00:43:33

people throwing up at the top, you

know, and she She stood her ground.

863

: 00:43:38

She was like, I don't I

don't need to do that.

864

: 00:43:39

I can go on have a good time

and I don't need to do that.

865

: 00:43:43

So she thought outside the box and I

was really proud of her for doing that.

866

: 00:43:46

And Alea went to Hawaii and her group,

they didn't have access to pubs and

867

: 00:43:53

bars because she was in a work study

program, but there were a lot of

868

: 00:43:58

kids who showed up to the program

and go, thank God we left our family.

869

: 00:44:01

It's just, Oh, I can't stand them.

870

: 00:44:03

And I'm so happy I'm away.

871

: 00:44:05

And then I was like,

why would you say that?

872

: 00:44:07

I tell my mom everything.

873

: 00:44:08

And they're like, why would

you tell your mom everything?

874

: 00:44:10

And she goes, because we've always

just told each other everything.

875

: 00:44:14

And so she, they just

thought so, so differently.

876

: 00:44:17

There was such a separation

of the kids from their family.

877

: 00:44:21

And I'm, I'm guessing it's because

They, they've been separated.

878

: 00:44:25

So the kids they went on the trips

with weren't all homeschooled kids?

879

: 00:44:28

None of them were.

880

: 00:44:29

Oh, okay.

881

: 00:44:30

Just, just my kids.

882

: 00:44:31

That was kind of their first exposure

without us there to, to, to guide them.

883

: 00:44:35

Talia wanted to get them exposure out

and she said, let's go see the world,

884

: 00:44:39

we'll come, we'll find a program.

885

: 00:44:41

And we were expecting them to go

and, wow, I got to see all these.

886

: 00:44:44

Great places and meet new people

and they kind of came back with

887

: 00:44:48

what Tali was just describing was,

wow, these people, they're animals.

888

: 00:44:53

Well, it wasn't that they were

animals, it's just that they just

889

: 00:44:55

didn't There was such a separation

between them and the and their family.

890

: 00:45:00

Yeah.

891

: 00:45:01

Because they've been, they, they go to

school and they're just separate, right?

892

: 00:45:04

Um, and, and another thing I wanted

to say is there's that, is it

893

: 00:45:08

okay if I talk about woke stuff?

894

: 00:45:10

Yeah.

895

: 00:45:10

Oh, okay.

896

: 00:45:11

Openly.

897

: 00:45:12

You can talk about whatever you want.

898

: 00:45:14

So, my grandmother asked me

once how I didn't get kicked off

899

: 00:45:17

the radio for cursing so much.

900

: 00:45:19

Oh, okay.

901

: 00:45:19

This is the, the great

beyond of podcasting.

902

: 00:45:22

We can talk about whatever

you want on the hinterland.

903

: 00:45:24

Because that's, that's, that's one of

the things that That, um, that really

904

: 00:45:28

just blew my mind was this huge,

huge push for the, the woke agenda,

905

: 00:45:34

even in these overseas programs.

906

: 00:45:36

And I just remember Brianna landing

in London and the first class she

907

: 00:45:41

was in, her professor called her out

and said, what do you think about

908

: 00:45:46

transitioning, gender transition?

909

: 00:45:50

Well, first class and compare that

to a child growing into an adult.

910

: 00:45:56

And Brianna said, well, one is a natural

process and one is an unnatural process.

911

: 00:46:01

And that was all she said.

912

: 00:46:03

And later on that program, she was

called out on that by another student

913

: 00:46:09

who was a gender fluid person.

914

: 00:46:13

Right.

915

: 00:46:13

And literally the entire program

was set down and the one person

916

: 00:46:18

in the middle telling everybody

how they had microaggression.

917

: 00:46:23

What is the verb for that?

918

: 00:46:25

Microaggressed.

919

: 00:46:26

I don't even know what it is.

920

: 00:46:27

She was offended by everything.

921

: 00:46:28

Right.

922

: 00:46:28

Microaggression.

923

: 00:46:29

She was personally attacked by everything.

924

: 00:46:32

And so Brianna just felt like I

can't even discuss it intelligently.

925

: 00:46:36

I can't just, I can't talk

freely about how I feel.

926

: 00:46:39

That's interesting.

927

: 00:46:40

It was, she completely shut down

because she said, What is the point?

928

: 00:46:44

Nobody's going to listen to me.

929

: 00:46:46

Because there is only one right answer.

930

: 00:46:48

And it was the same thing for

my other kids in other programs.

931

: 00:46:52

It was this huge push, like gender

is fluid, it doesn't, the biological

932

: 00:46:57

fact is not, is not a fact, and

it was a work study program.

933

: 00:47:02

Right, it's conformity

over open discussion.

934

: 00:47:04

Yes.

935

: 00:47:05

Yes.

936

: 00:47:06

So like when, when you and

Slim were doing your talk.

937

: 00:47:08

And somebody was pushing back

saying, where's the proof?

938

: 00:47:11

Where's the proof, right?

939

: 00:47:12

It's a very, my impression.

940

: 00:47:14

I mean, I'm only a couple of

years trying to learn this stuff,

941

: 00:47:16

but my impression is it's, it's

show me, like, I don't trust you.

942

: 00:47:20

Show me, verify, and no

one was offended by it.

943

: 00:47:24

It wasn't like you stood up and said,

we're not going to do that here.

944

: 00:47:28

And it was there.

945

: 00:47:29

And what Tolly's describing is.

946

: 00:47:32

So when you're, when you're

homeschooling, you're, you're asking

947

: 00:47:35

the kids to think, what is your opinion?

948

: 00:47:38

I want you to do this.

949

: 00:47:39

You're going to, you actually have to.

950

: 00:47:40

So in their minds, that's

just the way that things are.

951

: 00:47:43

You think for yourself.

952

: 00:47:43

And you asked me a question,

I tell you, our, our daughter

953

: 00:47:47

goes out and she gets shut down.

954

: 00:47:48

And now the program is saying.

955

: 00:47:51

You can't talk, right?

956

: 00:47:52

It's, it's like the opposite of,

uh, or if you, if you oppose what

957

: 00:47:55

we tell you, then you are a bigot.

958

: 00:47:58

That's not even opposition.

959

: 00:47:59

It's if you ask the question, you're

labeled if you have a yes, if or

960

: 00:48:01

if you say dare you, you believe.

961

: 00:48:03

So, I was actually very proud that,

that our kids thought outside the

962

: 00:48:08

system and thought outside the

box and stood their ground, but

963

: 00:48:11

they paid a price for it, right?

964

: 00:48:12

So.

965

: 00:48:14

That's interesting.

966

: 00:48:16

Do you feel like, one of the things

that I experienced, I went through

967

: 00:48:19

the traditional education system, and

I, I actually had a, a very similar

968

: 00:48:24

relationship with my parents, or I have

a very similar relationship and growing

969

: 00:48:28

up to the one that it sounds like

you have with your children, where it

970

: 00:48:30

was, even though I spent a lot of time

in the traditional education system,

971

: 00:48:34

that kind of thinking and the, the

discipline involved was something that my

972

: 00:48:40

parents really heavily instilled in me.

973

: 00:48:43

And I feel like one of the things that

I benefited from kind of, uh, perversely

974

: 00:48:48

or maybe, um, despite it was that it kind

of hardened me to being in situations

975

: 00:48:54

with support from my parents where I was

surrounded by people who were very shut

976

: 00:49:00

down and were sort of forced to conform.

977

: 00:49:02

And I had the support from my parents

to like, you, you have to, it's on you

978

: 00:49:05

to kind of, to think outside the box and

to really kind of confront people with

979

: 00:49:08

that in a way where they can understand

how you're trying to communicate.

980

: 00:49:11

Anyway, this is a long winded way

of asking, do you feel like Your,

981

: 00:49:16

those experiences were ultimately

positive for your children.

982

: 00:49:19

Do you feel like they came through

those sort of having that experience

983

: 00:49:23

and having a better sense of how

they can navigate those situations?

984

: 00:49:29

The same way that maybe I did,

I think we're still in it.

985

: 00:49:32

I think she's in that in the

example where we're walking through,

986

: 00:49:36

she's still dealing with that.

987

: 00:49:38

And I mean, she's moving on.

988

: 00:49:39

She's, she's doing other, other

things, but I mean, that's her,

989

: 00:49:43

her first experience away from it.

990

: 00:49:45

It really shook her.

991

: 00:49:46

She, she really was, was shaken by that.

992

: 00:49:50

So I don't think you, you stop learning.

993

: 00:49:51

In the same way, if you're an adult

and you have a bad relationship or

994

: 00:49:54

something else happens, it, you're

not, you're not over it instantly.

995

: 00:49:59

And I think, so for me, I'm really

proud of the way they, they went

996

: 00:50:04

through those, but I, they're not back

to where they were before they went.

997

: 00:50:09

It, it impacted who they, who

they are and how they, they think.

998

: 00:50:14

And I wish I could say, yeah,

they're all a hundred percent

999

: 00:50:17

and they're just happy again.

: 1000

00:50:18,611 --> 00:50:21,791

But it was almost like you went from I

don't want to say it wasn't protected,

: 1001

00:50:21,881 --> 00:50:25,151

but he went from an environment where

they thought one way about the world

: 1002

00:50:25,151 --> 00:50:29,251

and then they saw that the world wasn't,

that's not the way the world really was.

: 1003

00:50:29,791 --> 00:50:32,441

And so there's all types of emotional

things that they went through.

: 1004

00:50:32,491 --> 00:50:35,561

I think they're, they're just,

that's just their journey.

: 1005

00:50:35,561 --> 00:50:37,961

That's what we all, when we go

through a different age, went

: 1006

00:50:37,961 --> 00:50:39,131

through whatever we went through.

: 1007

00:50:39,451 --> 00:50:43,301

And so, so I'm really proud of them,

but I don't think they're, it's over.

: 1008

00:50:44,021 --> 00:50:44,321

Yeah.

: 1009

00:50:44,321 --> 00:50:46,431

And you said, are they better for it?

: 1010

00:50:46,451 --> 00:50:49,821

I think they, all three of them

would say, yes, we are better for it

: 1011

00:50:49,851 --> 00:50:54,891

because we learned what we believe

aside from apart from the family,

: 1012

00:50:54,891 --> 00:50:58,201

because before it was always, you

know, what mom and dad thought.

: 1013

00:50:58,626 --> 00:51:02,116

That was what they assumed they

thought they had to step away

: 1014

00:51:02,116 --> 00:51:06,276

to separate themselves from us

and decide what they believe.

: 1015

00:51:06,656 --> 00:51:09,686

So they now have a better

understanding of what they

: 1016

00:51:09,686 --> 00:51:12,136

believe themselves, but the scars.

: 1017

00:51:13,081 --> 00:51:16,081

Carry through and they are still

trying to work through that.

: 1018

00:51:16,261 --> 00:51:17,851

And then what I really like too.

: 1019

00:51:17,951 --> 00:51:20,841

It's actually kind of cool

in a way It's a little scary.

: 1020

00:51:22,051 --> 00:51:28,621

So we have four and one of our our second

oldest has almost become like a Counselor

: 1021

00:51:29,701 --> 00:51:34,111

they can help coach each other Yeah So

we've because we've developed how they

: 1022

00:51:34,121 --> 00:51:37,781

should treat each other with respect and

take responsibility all the things we

: 1023

00:51:37,781 --> 00:51:43,241

were just going through they're there for

each other and sometimes One might feel

: 1024

00:51:43,241 --> 00:51:47,071

more comfortable opening up to one of

their siblings and working through things.

: 1025

00:51:47,661 --> 00:51:51,331

As a parent, I find that really hard

because I want to be the one that Is

: 1026

00:51:51,331 --> 00:51:56,141

there to do whatever I want to be the one

that helps, but, um, we've developed a,

: 1027

00:51:56,251 --> 00:51:59,721

within the family unit, a support system

because they support each other too.

: 1028

00:51:59,941 --> 00:52:03,901

So it's, um, I think that's, it's a

side note, but it's, I found that it's,

: 1029

00:52:03,911 --> 00:52:05,411

it's a result of all those other things.

: 1030

00:52:05,411 --> 00:52:08,041

They now appreciate

what they went through.

: 1031

00:52:08,101 --> 00:52:11,471

They have a perspective on it and

now they can relate to each other.

: 1032

00:52:11,601 --> 00:52:13,041

There's a big corner, Jimmy Song.

: 1033

00:52:13,041 --> 00:52:14,421

I think he has six children.

: 1034

00:52:14,911 --> 00:52:17,731

He said after the third one, they

just start raising themselves.

: 1035

00:52:19,866 --> 00:52:21,326

Self perpetuating algorithms.

: 1036

00:52:22,156 --> 00:52:24,316

He's like, the first three are the

most difficult, and then after that

: 1037

00:52:24,316 --> 00:52:25,586

Yeah, once you're in his own defense.

: 1038

00:52:25,636 --> 00:52:26,016

Yeah.

: 1039

00:52:27,266 --> 00:52:32,456

Um, I mean, this is a little bit

tangential, I think, but, uh, I

: 1040

00:52:32,456 --> 00:52:35,666

wonder if that is, and obviously me

and Pete don't have any children.

: 1041

00:52:36,361 --> 00:52:40,341

So we're just completely diving

in here, um, and trying to

: 1042

00:52:40,341 --> 00:52:41,881

learn from, from you guys.

: 1043

00:52:42,361 --> 00:52:47,771

Um, I feel like maybe one of the challenge

points for some people who choose to do

: 1044

00:52:47,771 --> 00:52:52,951

homeschooling is that they would rather

indoctrinate their kids on what they

: 1045

00:52:52,951 --> 00:52:58,491

believe rather than Empowering them

to be independent critical thinkers.

: 1046

00:52:59,101 --> 00:53:03,791

Uh, I mean, I, I assume you guys

know a lot of other families that

: 1047

00:53:03,791 --> 00:53:04,981

have chose to do homeschooling.

: 1048

00:53:04,991 --> 00:53:09,481

Have you seen that as a pain point

for some families that like, their

: 1049

00:53:09,481 --> 00:53:12,971

main goal of, or, or not their

main, not even intentionally, right?

: 1050

00:53:12,971 --> 00:53:15,871

It's just like, they're just

trying to create mini me's rather

: 1051

00:53:15,881 --> 00:53:17,441

than like new independent people.

: 1052

00:53:18,651 --> 00:53:21,641

Yeah, we have seen, we have

seen families like that.

: 1053

00:53:22,171 --> 00:53:26,811

I think the amazing thing about

children is that they pick up

: 1054

00:53:26,811 --> 00:53:28,191

things that are not taught to them.

: 1055

00:53:28,411 --> 00:53:28,711

Right.

: 1056

00:53:29,231 --> 00:53:31,961

And they will, unless they've

been locked in a closet, which I

: 1057

00:53:31,971 --> 00:53:33,251

don't know anybody who does that.

: 1058

00:53:34,311 --> 00:53:37,871

Home schoolers are out there all

the time, interacting, interacting.

: 1059

00:53:38,241 --> 00:53:46,286

So, even kids who are raised It's very,

very strict and literally with one option,

: 1060

00:53:46,426 --> 00:53:50,816

you know, in their beliefs because of

the, the family beliefs, they are still

: 1061

00:53:50,826 --> 00:53:54,966

constantly being exposed to other kids

and other families because they're

: 1062

00:53:54,976 --> 00:53:59,796

out there and they have the freedom to

interact and, and talk and ask questions.

: 1063

00:54:00,361 --> 00:54:02,041

And really question each other even.

: 1064

00:54:02,421 --> 00:54:06,611

So I'm not too too worried about

that unless the families just

: 1065

00:54:06,631 --> 00:54:10,171

only stay within their family or

they have a circle of friends who

: 1066

00:54:10,171 --> 00:54:11,511

believe exactly the same thing.

: 1067

00:54:11,851 --> 00:54:13,741

I don't think there's any way

that the kids are not going to

: 1068

00:54:13,751 --> 00:54:15,331

be exposed to other beliefs.

: 1069

00:54:15,671 --> 00:54:19,031

And eventually, as a person

matured, you can't help but

: 1070

00:54:19,361 --> 00:54:20,811

Try to form your own identity.

: 1071

00:54:20,841 --> 00:54:22,371

That's just a natural process.

: 1072

00:54:22,731 --> 00:54:26,681

So, would you agree with me that if, if

there were like new parents listening

: 1073

00:54:26,681 --> 00:54:32,391

right now, that, that a key fundamental

of, of going this route is that You are

: 1074

00:54:32,391 --> 00:54:37,641

trying to empower the child to make their

own decisions rather than yeah, yeah,

: 1075

00:54:37,641 --> 00:54:42,571

critical thinking for sure and I probably

tell my kids way too much because I am

: 1076

00:54:42,601 --> 00:54:47,851

always explaining to them why I have come

to a conclusion or why I have come to

: 1077

00:54:47,851 --> 00:54:51,431

a decision if I make them do anything,

I give them like a half an hour lecture

: 1078

00:54:51,441 --> 00:54:53,191

on why I'm making them do something.

: 1079

00:54:53,511 --> 00:54:56,321

To the point where they will look at

me like, mom, okay, that's enough.

: 1080

00:54:56,321 --> 00:54:57,801

We just tell us we need to do it.

: 1081

00:54:58,401 --> 00:55:03,701

But I feel that if I explain to them my

thinking process, then they know how I.

: 1082

00:55:04,111 --> 00:55:07,181

At least the steps, mental steps

that I took to arrive there.

: 1083

00:55:07,231 --> 00:55:10,941

And they can maybe emulate that in their

own mind and make their own decisions.

: 1084

00:55:11,371 --> 00:55:15,071

And if you meet our kids, I don't think

you got to talk to, um, the two that came

: 1085

00:55:15,081 --> 00:55:19,251

the other time, but if you meet them and

talk to them, you can see very quickly

: 1086

00:55:19,251 --> 00:55:23,351

that they are very, very different people

and very different people from us even.

: 1087

00:55:23,786 --> 00:55:27,116

And we actually take pride in that, right?

: 1088

00:55:27,116 --> 00:55:31,916

I don't think even if we had set out to

make mini me's, I don't, I just don't

: 1089

00:55:31,926 --> 00:55:34,516

think that's the way that we were built.

: 1090

00:55:34,666 --> 00:55:39,486

I just don't think you could humanity

or you know, like, I just don't think

: 1091

00:55:39,486 --> 00:55:44,836

if you said, you know, my kid's going

to be this way and that's it, good luck.

: 1092

00:55:44,916 --> 00:55:45,386

I don't know.

: 1093

00:55:45,386 --> 00:55:49,176

I just don't, I, there's certain

things that I, I had hoped that they

: 1094

00:55:49,176 --> 00:55:51,906

would do, like I had gone into service

and I had hoped that at least one of

: 1095

00:55:51,906 --> 00:55:55,786

them, but I don't think any of them

will, and you could fill, you might.

: 1096

00:55:56,151 --> 00:55:59,091

Someone might be in a different

journey with their, their religious.

: 1097

00:55:59,476 --> 00:56:00,316

Uh, status.

: 1098

00:56:00,316 --> 00:56:01,536

It could be the academic.

: 1099

00:56:01,536 --> 00:56:05,576

It could be, um, I don't wanna get too

personal on some of the other things

: 1100

00:56:05,576 --> 00:56:09,366

going on with the relationships and

whatnot, but they're not doing what

: 1101

00:56:09,366 --> 00:56:10,986

we would want them what we would do.

: 1102

00:56:11,026 --> 00:56:11,986

They're not enemies.

: 1103

00:56:12,186 --> 00:56:15,676

And I just, I just don't even

know if we had tried to do that.

: 1104

00:56:15,706 --> 00:56:15,986

I.

: 1105

00:56:16,056 --> 00:56:20,166

I don't see how anybody

could, could really do that.

: 1106

00:56:20,166 --> 00:56:20,626

I just.

: 1107

00:56:21,446 --> 00:56:27,646

That's interesting because my experience,

I've seen a lot of, and not, uh,

: 1108

00:56:28,536 --> 00:56:30,546

not homeschooling specific, right?

: 1109

00:56:30,556 --> 00:56:33,986

Just seeing a lot of parents that want

their kids to be exactly like them.

: 1110

00:56:34,156 --> 00:56:34,696

Yeah.

: 1111

00:56:34,816 --> 00:56:36,256

And like, this is the way you name names.

: 1112

00:56:36,296 --> 00:56:37,066

I want to know who you're talking about.

: 1113

00:56:38,726 --> 00:56:39,766

Um, yeah.

: 1114

00:56:40,116 --> 00:56:41,286

Are they successful?

: 1115

00:56:41,686 --> 00:56:41,876

Yeah.

: 1116

00:56:41,876 --> 00:56:42,306

Do they do it?

: 1117

00:56:42,476 --> 00:56:42,816

Who?

: 1118

00:56:43,096 --> 00:56:44,826

The people you know.

: 1119

00:56:45,506 --> 00:56:47,446

Like, are they, are they

successfully creating mini me's?

: 1120

00:56:47,446 --> 00:56:47,836

Yeah.

: 1121

00:56:47,836 --> 00:56:47,868

Yeah.

: 1122

00:56:47,868 --> 00:56:47,901

Yeah.

: 1123

00:56:48,331 --> 00:56:54,051

I mean, to a degree, I, I, I haven't

seen, you know, uh, I haven't followed

: 1124

00:56:54,061 --> 00:56:59,491

up with the case studies to see like

how the kids have turned out, but, uh,

: 1125

00:57:00,161 --> 00:57:04,381

I mean, you see it in like, you see it

in state school a lot, uh, like, uh,

: 1126

00:57:05,021 --> 00:57:08,201

my experience going through school or

whatever, where the kids, you know, I'm

: 1127

00:57:08,211 --> 00:57:13,676

like 14 years old, 15 years old, And like

the opinions and thought processes and

: 1128

00:57:13,676 --> 00:57:19,316

perspectives of the child are essentially

just a direct rip of the parent and

: 1129

00:57:19,316 --> 00:57:22,856

the kid doesn't know why he thinks

that or why that's the absolute truth.

: 1130

00:57:22,866 --> 00:57:28,246

They just, it just, you know, uh,

drilled into them from a young age.

: 1131

00:57:28,256 --> 00:57:33,006

And I just assume, I assume with

homeschooling that can be to the

: 1132

00:57:33,386 --> 00:57:39,626

even worse extreme just because they

have full, um, right there, they

: 1133

00:57:39,626 --> 00:57:41,186

have the full attention of the child.

: 1134

00:57:41,216 --> 00:57:42,456

They don't have the other.

: 1135

00:57:42,886 --> 00:57:47,746

Necessary other aspects and maybe

even, you know, maybe you don't see

: 1136

00:57:47,746 --> 00:57:54,921

the worst versions of that because

those are the ones that I mean, you

: 1137

00:57:54,921 --> 00:57:58,361

made the joke, which is like that

stereotype of like the negative

: 1138

00:57:58,361 --> 00:58:01,541

homeschooling environment where Harry

Potter's locked in his cupboard, right?

: 1139

00:58:01,571 --> 00:58:05,671

Where like he can't see anybody, but a

less extreme version of that where they

: 1140

00:58:05,671 --> 00:58:08,681

aren't really exposed to other opinions.

: 1141

00:58:08,681 --> 00:58:13,491

They aren't, you know, necessarily, you

know, in public and get to choose, you

: 1142

00:58:13,491 --> 00:58:15,271

know, their route or where they're going.

: 1143

00:58:16,101 --> 00:58:17,981

There's probably extreme cases of that.

: 1144

00:58:18,246 --> 00:58:21,116

I think there has to be, but I also think,

you know, to this thing you said earlier,

: 1145

00:58:21,146 --> 00:58:22,676

that children are incredibly adaptable.

: 1146

00:58:22,676 --> 00:58:24,666

I feel like it's like, it's

almost like trying to like, you

: 1147

00:58:24,666 --> 00:58:26,146

know, cup water in your hands.

: 1148

00:58:26,146 --> 00:58:29,516

It's like people will find, and I

think especially as they're growing

: 1149

00:58:29,516 --> 00:58:32,296

up, people find access to information.

: 1150

00:58:32,831 --> 00:58:35,231

Even when you try to prevent

them from getting access to it.

: 1151

00:58:35,231 --> 00:58:38,041

And so I feel like we're in a lot of

situations, the more pressure that

: 1152

00:58:38,281 --> 00:58:40,761

parents try to put on their children to

be a certain way, like even if they're

: 1153

00:58:40,761 --> 00:58:43,151

homeschooled, you know, the Harry

Potter analogy, like they're going to,

: 1154

00:58:43,221 --> 00:58:45,181

they're going to look up weird shit

on their phone and they're going to

: 1155

00:58:45,181 --> 00:58:46,481

be like, you know, what is this thing?

: 1156

00:58:46,591 --> 00:58:47,761

How do I get access to it?

: 1157

00:58:47,771 --> 00:58:48,541

And they're going to seek it out.

: 1158

00:58:48,551 --> 00:58:52,881

Well, that's a whole different element,

which, you know, Not a parent yet, but

: 1159

00:58:52,991 --> 00:58:59,581

scares the shit out of me, which is like

the balance of internet Social media like

: 1160

00:58:59,581 --> 00:59:05,391

not wanting a kid that you know It's not a

like I would like my kid to be fluent with

: 1161

00:59:05,391 --> 00:59:12,261

computers and technology and but also,

you know Social networks are predatory by

: 1162

00:59:12,261 --> 00:59:18,081

design You need to talk to them And you

need to talk to them and you need to talk

: 1163

00:59:18,081 --> 00:59:20,771

to them and you need to talk to them to

talk to them and you need to talk to them.

: 1164

00:59:20,771 --> 00:59:22,168

Well then you, and then

you need to trust them.

: 1165

00:59:22,168 --> 00:59:24,011

And then you need to trust them.

: 1166

00:59:24,011 --> 00:59:29,081

They're going to make their own

mistakes and you're just, one

: 1167

00:59:29,081 --> 00:59:30,161

thing is a hundred percent sure.

: 1168

00:59:30,161 --> 00:59:32,131

At some point you're not going

to be next to them when they have

: 1169

00:59:32,131 --> 00:59:33,451

to make a decision on something.

: 1170

00:59:33,551 --> 00:59:33,861

Right.

: 1171

00:59:33,981 --> 00:59:39,161

So my point of view is you do your

best to prepare them on how to,

: 1172

00:59:39,561 --> 00:59:42,091

again, going back to the frameworks,

how to think about things.

: 1173

00:59:42,991 --> 00:59:44,921

And then at some point you're

going to, you're going to

: 1174

00:59:44,931 --> 00:59:46,051

have to take a leap of faith.

: 1175

00:59:46,706 --> 00:59:53,316

And, and trust them to take action

on their own and, and I mean, a

: 1176

00:59:53,316 --> 00:59:54,816

kid learns to walk by falling down.

: 1177

00:59:54,816 --> 00:59:58,896

They, you, you ride a bike, you fall

down, there's no way you can teach them

: 1178

00:59:58,896 --> 01:00:03,166

a hundred percent of the things to,

you know, they're going to be exposed

: 1179

01:00:03,166 --> 01:00:06,936

to whatever on social media or it's

pornography or whatever it is that

: 1180

01:00:07,226 --> 01:00:12,006

violence, whatever it might be, drugs, at

some point they're going to have to make

: 1181

01:00:12,006 --> 01:00:13,446

their own decision when you're not there.

: 1182

01:00:13,716 --> 01:00:17,006

And so you're, I think the best thing

you can do is you try to talk and talk

: 1183

01:00:17,006 --> 01:00:22,196

and talk and prepare them, let them know

you're They, you're there if they ever

: 1184

01:00:22,196 --> 01:00:27,696

need you, no matter what, it's, you know,

just whatever happens we're here for you.

: 1185

01:00:28,816 --> 01:00:32,116

But at some point you have to,

you're going to have to let go.

: 1186

01:00:32,206 --> 01:00:35,706

And I just don't see how anybody could

really keep that level of control

: 1187

01:00:35,716 --> 01:00:36,976

that you were, you're describing.

: 1188

01:00:36,996 --> 01:00:41,966

I, at least I personally don't

see how, how you could do that.

: 1189

01:00:41,966 --> 01:00:44,596

I think you're, there's too many

ways of getting other information.

: 1190

01:00:45,491 --> 01:00:47,931

And if you have more than one

kid, you can't physically be

: 1191

01:00:47,931 --> 01:00:49,131

with them all the time anyway.

: 1192

01:00:49,241 --> 01:00:53,681

So, um, I want to add something

to that also before you trust

: 1193

01:00:53,681 --> 01:00:55,351

them, you talk to them first.

: 1194

01:00:55,361 --> 01:01:01,841

So for example, when, when my kids

were, my oldest was, uh, I don't

: 1195

01:01:01,841 --> 01:01:03,371

know, like five or six or whatever.

: 1196

01:01:03,851 --> 01:01:07,081

And we were with a family friend

and she said, have you talked

: 1197

01:01:07,081 --> 01:01:09,416

to You're a child about sex.

: 1198

01:01:09,436 --> 01:01:11,646

And I said, why would I

talk to her about sex?

: 1199

01:01:11,646 --> 01:01:12,586

She's five or six.

: 1200

01:01:13,046 --> 01:01:15,026

And she said, she knows nothing right now.

: 1201

01:01:15,296 --> 01:01:19,306

So you'd be the first to plant an

idea in her mind that it is sacred.

: 1202

01:01:19,316 --> 01:01:20,226

It's a sacred act.

: 1203

01:01:20,226 --> 01:01:22,326

It's not something you throw around.

: 1204

01:01:22,946 --> 01:01:23,616

And I thought.

: 1205

01:01:24,106 --> 01:01:29,386

Ew, that's weird because I don't want to

talk about that, but I ultimately did.

: 1206

01:01:29,876 --> 01:01:33,386

And it was, is, there's a series of

books that actually talk about that

: 1207

01:01:33,386 --> 01:01:36,816

subject in a very general, general way.

: 1208

01:01:36,816 --> 01:01:40,256

So you're not, you know, yeah,

nothing weird, like too crazy,

: 1209

01:01:40,256 --> 01:01:42,726

but you start planting seeds.

: 1210

01:01:42,876 --> 01:01:44,626

You just got to start planting seeds.

: 1211

01:01:44,626 --> 01:01:48,646

And so if you plant seeds when they're

five, six, and you continue to talk about

: 1212

01:01:48,646 --> 01:01:55,726

how important it is to value your, your

body and, um, and take relationships and

: 1213

01:01:55,736 --> 01:01:59,246

friendships seriously, then by the time

they, their hormones kick in, they're

: 1214

01:01:59,246 --> 01:02:03,136

going into puberty, they already have

heard that you don't even have to say it.

: 1215

01:02:03,136 --> 01:02:04,044

Yeah.

: 1216

01:02:04,044 --> 01:02:08,581

So when Like I said, when my friend

mentioned that to me, I was like,

: 1217

01:02:08,581 --> 01:02:11,281

that is the weirdest wackiest,

why would I want to go there?

: 1218

01:02:11,691 --> 01:02:13,151

But I'm really glad that I did.

: 1219

01:02:13,461 --> 01:02:15,011

And I did it with my first three.

: 1220

01:02:15,041 --> 01:02:18,191

And then the fourth one, when he was old

enough, I said, okay, let's sit down.

: 1221

01:02:18,191 --> 01:02:20,251

He goes, You don't need

to tell me anything.

: 1222

01:02:20,251 --> 01:02:21,151

I already know everything.

: 1223

01:02:21,191 --> 01:02:22,526

And I said What?

: 1224

01:02:22,816 --> 01:02:27,066

And he just recited, he

recited the stuff to me.

: 1225

01:02:27,066 --> 01:02:28,476

I'm like, okay, I guess you got it.

: 1226

01:02:28,476 --> 01:02:28,946

Never mind.

: 1227

01:02:29,366 --> 01:02:31,086

So, so Matt, did we answer

your question though?

: 1228

01:02:31,086 --> 01:02:32,026

I don't know if we did.

: 1229

01:02:32,146 --> 01:02:33,976

I think you did.

: 1230

01:02:35,506 --> 01:02:36,106

I have a question.

: 1231

01:02:36,456 --> 01:02:39,766

You mentioned something interesting,

which is that you had hoped that one of

: 1232

01:02:39,766 --> 01:02:40,956

your children would go into the service.

: 1233

01:02:40,966 --> 01:02:43,506

And I think a lot of people think,

we've been talking about how in the

: 1234

01:02:43,506 --> 01:02:47,286

traditional education system, it is,

you know, really the system that's

: 1235

01:02:47,286 --> 01:02:52,431

designed to kind of, um, You know, turn

people into productive units of society.

: 1236

01:02:52,431 --> 01:02:56,581

And I think a lot of people would view

military service in kind of a similar way.

: 1237

01:02:56,581 --> 01:02:59,431

Potentially even more than more so.

: 1238

01:02:59,441 --> 01:02:59,821

Yeah.

: 1239

01:02:59,821 --> 01:03:00,081

Yeah.

: 1240

01:03:00,131 --> 01:03:03,741

So I'm curious where that comes from

and sort of how, how you think about

: 1241

01:03:04,121 --> 01:03:09,991

military service versus traditional

education and why one is preferable or

: 1242

01:03:09,991 --> 01:03:11,881

ideal, you know, ideal versus another.

: 1243

01:03:11,971 --> 01:03:13,031

And do you still believe that?

: 1244

01:03:13,031 --> 01:03:14,221

Do you, do you still?

: 1245

01:03:14,276 --> 01:03:17,826

I wish that at least one of

them went into the service.

: 1246

01:03:18,856 --> 01:03:22,376

They're, at their ages around

now, it's, it's kind of done.

: 1247

01:03:22,396 --> 01:03:24,336

I don't, they're not going

to, they're not going to go.

: 1248

01:03:24,396 --> 01:03:30,936

Um, so to me, the, I didn't know what

I really wanted to do when I was 18.

: 1249

01:03:30,986 --> 01:03:36,736

And for me, the, the service was an

opportunity where, where it kind of

: 1250

01:03:36,736 --> 01:03:38,306

kept you, it had some boundaries.

: 1251

01:03:39,086 --> 01:03:43,106

And the military, I think, is

really good about putting people

: 1252

01:03:43,106 --> 01:03:44,476

through experiences together.

: 1253

01:03:45,386 --> 01:03:48,196

You go, whether it's boot camp or

whatever, you, you go through tough times

: 1254

01:03:48,196 --> 01:03:54,286

together, and then you, you bond, and you

learn about things, and you, you, there's

: 1255

01:03:54,286 --> 01:03:56,926

just something different about that

experience, and if you don't know what you

: 1256

01:03:56,926 --> 01:03:58,686

want to do, it can help with structure.

: 1257

01:03:59,156 --> 01:04:04,446

And I, so for me personally, I, I

grew personally because of that.

: 1258

01:04:05,366 --> 01:04:07,546

Because I, I was kind of otherwise lost.

: 1259

01:04:07,546 --> 01:04:10,366

I didn't have a goal to be just a

doctor or a lawyer or some people know

: 1260

01:04:10,366 --> 01:04:11,666

they want to be a pilot, whatever.

: 1261

01:04:11,686 --> 01:04:12,446

I didn't have that.

: 1262

01:04:13,256 --> 01:04:14,246

So for me, it does that.

: 1263

01:04:14,326 --> 01:04:18,026

And, and honestly, I,

the, I didn't understand.

: 1264

01:04:18,026 --> 01:04:21,266

I went through the public school

system growing up and we would

: 1265

01:04:21,266 --> 01:04:24,976

do the Pledge Allegiance and we

learned history and whatever it was.

: 1266

01:04:24,976 --> 01:04:30,661

And I, I just, you know, I thought the

whole world was the way it was here,

: 1267

01:04:30,801 --> 01:04:36,251

and I didn't fully understand that

the freedoms we have, we have a lot

: 1268

01:04:36,251 --> 01:04:39,591

of things wrong with the government,

it's definitely too big, there's a lot

: 1269

01:04:39,591 --> 01:04:40,641

of things we can go down with that.

: 1270

01:04:40,671 --> 01:04:44,831

On the other hand, we are really

blessed with a lot of things here.

: 1271

01:04:44,961 --> 01:04:47,581

We do have the First Amendment, we have

the Second Amendment, we can talk about

: 1272

01:04:47,581 --> 01:04:52,891

all the craziness that's going on, but

no society has ever been perfect, and I,

: 1273

01:04:52,961 --> 01:04:59,121

and I strongly believe that, We have a

really good thing here, and someone has

: 1274

01:04:59,121 --> 01:05:02,221

to, someone has to do the right thing.

: 1275

01:05:02,301 --> 01:05:04,151

It's not, it's not, it's not free.

: 1276

01:05:04,881 --> 01:05:07,671

And the idea of what service is

now, I look at like Congress and

: 1277

01:05:07,671 --> 01:05:11,501

quote unquote service, and you got,

you know, inside trader Pelosi and

: 1278

01:05:11,511 --> 01:05:12,811

whatever else is going on there.

: 1279

01:05:12,811 --> 01:05:15,921

And I'm like, these people are just,

they're just, they're like a different,

: 1280

01:05:15,931 --> 01:05:18,061

they're their little political class.

: 1281

01:05:18,911 --> 01:05:20,121

That was not the intent.

: 1282

01:05:20,331 --> 01:05:22,951

If you go back to, we're supposed

to have limited government, we're

: 1283

01:05:22,951 --> 01:05:24,281

supposed to have our freedoms.

: 1284

01:05:25,086 --> 01:05:29,536

Like, those things to me are still really

valuable, and I think, yeah, we have a

: 1285

01:05:29,536 --> 01:05:34,096

lot of flaws and a lot of bad things going

on right now, but the idea of service and

: 1286

01:05:34,106 --> 01:05:38,756

serving that ideal in the Constitution,

I still think, yeah, I, I, I do strong,

: 1287

01:05:38,796 --> 01:05:44,451

I have a lot of strong feelings with

that, and I get very upset when I see

: 1288

01:05:44,451 --> 01:05:47,761

people just flaunting it and tearing

it down and trying to rewrite history.

: 1289

01:05:48,331 --> 01:05:50,071

I'm like, you, you're an idiot.

: 1290

01:05:50,231 --> 01:05:52,121

You have no idea what

you're talking about.

: 1291

01:05:52,551 --> 01:05:57,561

If you actually experienced what you think

you're describing, you would hate it.

: 1292

01:05:58,211 --> 01:06:05,291

And um, so I guess, um, I, I

think military services is not for

: 1293

01:06:05,301 --> 01:06:10,211

everyone, but I do think that most

of the people in the service, their

: 1294

01:06:10,221 --> 01:06:11,271

hearts are in the right place.

: 1295

01:06:11,291 --> 01:06:12,811

They're serving for the right reasons.

: 1296

01:06:13,671 --> 01:06:16,371

Um, you have, you have

soldiers on food stamps, right?

: 1297

01:06:16,371 --> 01:06:19,341

And you compare that to the people

getting rich and quote unquote

: 1298

01:06:19,341 --> 01:06:20,901

serving in political office.

: 1299

01:06:21,751 --> 01:06:26,831

So, um, so I still, I still feel

very strongly about the, the, the

: 1300

01:06:26,831 --> 01:06:31,741

military, but as far as our kids,

I have to respect the fact that

: 1301

01:06:31,741 --> 01:06:33,290

that's not, that's not their thing.

: 1302

01:06:33,290 --> 01:06:35,873

They don't want to, there

is a dichotomy there, right?

: 1303

01:06:35,873 --> 01:06:41,321

Like homeschooling versus modern

day military service, I would say.

: 1304

01:06:41,321 --> 01:06:45,261

I mean, I, I, when you, when,

when you're, when you were in

: 1305

01:06:45,261 --> 01:06:46,711

the military, you signed an oath.

: 1306

01:06:47,261 --> 01:06:50,381

You swore an oath to the constitution

to uphold the constitution.

: 1307

01:06:50,831 --> 01:06:56,381

You didn't swear an oath to corrupt

politicians, but my yes, but in

: 1308

01:06:56,381 --> 01:06:59,791

practice, this is Scott's first time

on a podcast, so we need to keep

: 1309

01:06:59,791 --> 01:07:01,281

reminding him to put the mic up.

: 1310

01:07:01,731 --> 01:07:07,041

Um, but in practice, in, in practice

there, you're, you're basically a

: 1311

01:07:07,041 --> 01:07:09,311

pawn for the corrupt political class.

: 1312

01:07:09,381 --> 01:07:09,851

Right.

: 1313

01:07:10,171 --> 01:07:10,471

Right.

: 1314

01:07:11,281 --> 01:07:11,511

Right.

: 1315

01:07:11,511 --> 01:07:13,301

And then, and that was one of

the things I had a hard time.

: 1316

01:07:14,286 --> 01:07:18,316

Reading like the first, like when I, uh,

the Bitcoin standard, when you talk about

: 1317

01:07:18,316 --> 01:07:24,596

how you can have endless wars because of

the money system, it, I had to, it took

: 1318

01:07:24,596 --> 01:07:28,566

me a while to really think on, on that

because I'm like, Oh, wait a minute.

: 1319

01:07:28,566 --> 01:07:32,136

So those in service, are

they, are they a pawn type?

: 1320

01:07:32,146 --> 01:07:32,426

Right.

: 1321

01:07:32,426 --> 01:07:36,216

I wasn't using those words, but

that is a, that is a struggle.

: 1322

01:07:36,286 --> 01:07:40,436

And so, um, so if I'm,

if I'm understanding you

: 1323

01:07:40,436 --> 01:07:41,566

correctly, you're saying.

: 1324

01:07:42,521 --> 01:07:45,381

You should, if you want these

freedoms, don't be a pawn,

: 1325

01:07:45,491 --> 01:07:47,131

therefore don't go into service.

: 1326

01:07:47,701 --> 01:07:49,451

Is that kind of what your, your logic is?

: 1327

01:07:49,461 --> 01:07:55,921

No, I mean, it's just a weird, it's

uh, I agree with you that most people

: 1328

01:07:55,921 --> 01:07:59,971

that go into military service do it

for the quote unquote right reasons

: 1329

01:07:59,971 --> 01:08:01,371

or their heart is in the right place.

: 1330

01:08:01,901 --> 01:08:06,681

Um, to uphold the constitution, to

uphold quote unquote American values,

: 1331

01:08:06,681 --> 01:08:07,781

the things that we care about.

: 1332

01:08:08,441 --> 01:08:16,091

Um, I just, and, and we want as many

people in our nation's military, and

: 1333

01:08:16,091 --> 01:08:18,930

I would even go as far as say police

force and whatnot, that actually

: 1334

01:08:18,930 --> 01:08:22,191

believe in those things and don't

just blindly respect authority.

: 1335

01:08:22,511 --> 01:08:22,770

Correct.

: 1336

01:08:22,770 --> 01:08:23,121

Right?

: 1337

01:08:23,571 --> 01:08:29,751

Um, but in practice, those

people are usually crushed.

: 1338

01:08:30,331 --> 01:08:34,911

And the result is the remainder

are the ones that will just

: 1339

01:08:34,921 --> 01:08:36,560

blindly follow authority.

: 1340

01:08:37,381 --> 01:08:40,501

And I'm trying to be delicate

here because I know it's cliche,

: 1341

01:08:40,501 --> 01:08:41,681

but thank you for your service.

: 1342

01:08:41,751 --> 01:08:44,651

I like respect and grateful

for everyone that has served.

: 1343

01:08:45,131 --> 01:08:50,341

Um, but those people tend to be

crushed and then the remainder are the

: 1344

01:08:50,341 --> 01:08:52,631

ones that blindly respect authority.

: 1345

01:08:52,661 --> 01:08:58,020

And that authority is, is at this

point in our nation's development is

: 1346

01:08:58,991 --> 01:09:01,541

incredibly corrupt, like at its core.

: 1347

01:09:02,031 --> 01:09:09,060

Um, and we saw that to the extreme

during the response to COVID where.

: 1348

01:09:10,145 --> 01:09:14,616

Anyone who refused to get the vaccine

was kicked out of our military and

: 1349

01:09:14,616 --> 01:09:16,106

was kicked out of police forces.

: 1350

01:09:16,345 --> 01:09:21,616

So literally the only people you have

left over is the subservient class.

: 1351

01:09:21,685 --> 01:09:24,236

The people that are just willing

to take it no matter what.

: 1352

01:09:24,265 --> 01:09:25,776

Whatever you say, I'll do it.

: 1353

01:09:26,276 --> 01:09:26,566

Right?

: 1354

01:09:26,566 --> 01:09:33,116

And willing to turn a blind eye when the

person that was serving next to them is

: 1355

01:09:33,621 --> 01:09:38,220

You know, is, is made destitute and, and

put out on the street essentially, right?

: 1356

01:09:38,251 --> 01:09:40,640

And not able to support their

family because they've lost,

: 1357

01:09:40,731 --> 01:09:42,011

they've lost their career.

: 1358

01:09:42,551 --> 01:09:44,981

Yeah, I found that very disturbing,

what happened with all that, with the

: 1359

01:09:45,001 --> 01:09:46,421

I mean, that's the extreme, right?

: 1360

01:09:46,421 --> 01:09:48,111

But we were already trending that way.

: 1361

01:09:48,720 --> 01:09:51,401

And then it was, you know,

like Parker, Parker Lewis, but

: 1362

01:09:51,421 --> 01:09:52,831

gradually then suddenly, right?

: 1363

01:09:52,841 --> 01:09:56,061

Like there was a gradual

Push in that direction.

: 1364

01:09:56,501 --> 01:10:01,031

And then we had like the sudden

band aid rip of the COVID response.

: 1365

01:10:02,021 --> 01:10:04,711

Um, and it should be interesting

to see how that all plays out.

: 1366

01:10:04,711 --> 01:10:09,721

But I mean, we had a close

friend who was working with us

: 1367

01:10:09,721 --> 01:10:11,761

at Bitcoin Magazine, me and P.

: 1368

01:10:12,906 --> 01:10:19,356

And he was in the military and he

had actually retired a couple months

: 1369

01:10:19,356 --> 01:10:24,406

before he had done his, his, his, he

had done his service and he retired

: 1370

01:10:24,406 --> 01:10:26,546

according to their, their scheme, right?

: 1371

01:10:26,546 --> 01:10:30,166

And he was getting his, he was, he was

on track to get his military pension.

: 1372

01:10:30,966 --> 01:10:33,476

And they said as a retired person.

: 1373

01:10:34,181 --> 01:10:36,921

That he needed to comply with

the vaccine mandate, otherwise

: 1374

01:10:36,921 --> 01:10:38,081

he wouldn't get his pension.

: 1375

01:10:39,031 --> 01:10:42,091

Um, so we saw that first hand

and him battling with that.

: 1376

01:10:42,271 --> 01:10:42,591

Yeah.

: 1377

01:10:42,751 --> 01:10:47,101

Um, and he was ultimately, he's like,

I'm going to fight this to the end.

: 1378

01:10:47,741 --> 01:10:50,851

Out of principle, you know, I'm not

going to just fucking do this thing.

: 1379

01:10:50,931 --> 01:10:53,021

He's like, even if I wanted

to take the vaccine, like, I'm

: 1380

01:10:53,021 --> 01:10:54,271

not complying with this shit.

: 1381

01:10:55,011 --> 01:10:58,351

Um, but yeah, I mean, it's

just crazy to witness.

: 1382

01:10:59,151 --> 01:11:00,041

Yeah, I agree.

: 1383

01:11:00,041 --> 01:11:04,111

There's It is the, but I mean, if we,

if we get the money, if we can fix the

: 1384

01:11:04,121 --> 01:11:07,631

money, then we can, there's a lot of

things including fix the incentives.

: 1385

01:11:07,631 --> 01:11:09,801

It's broken incentives everywhere, right?

: 1386

01:11:11,401 --> 01:11:11,741

Okay.

: 1387

01:11:11,771 --> 01:11:14,021

Um, this has been a great conversation.

: 1388

01:11:14,031 --> 01:11:18,291

We're a little bit over an hour in, uh,

let's, uh, shall we talk about this?

: 1389

01:11:18,301 --> 01:11:18,981

Awesome.

: 1390

01:11:19,001 --> 01:11:20,601

This awesome board game you created.

: 1391

01:11:20,631 --> 01:11:23,971

And I, I, once again, I, I said this

to, I said this at the beginning of

: 1392

01:11:23,991 --> 01:11:27,511

the episode, but I said this to Scott

and Tali when we played the game.

: 1393

01:11:29,211 --> 01:11:33,091

I don't say this lightly when I say it's

the best Bitcoin game I've ever played.

: 1394

01:11:33,591 --> 01:11:35,341

Uh, I played many Bitcoin games.

: 1395

01:11:35,421 --> 01:11:36,651

A lot of people want feedback.

: 1396

01:11:37,091 --> 01:11:42,831

Uh, When you asked, uh, for feedback and I

met you for the first time, like literally

: 1397

01:11:42,851 --> 01:11:47,011

no idea who you were, uh, you're standing

in Bitcoin Park and you're like, I have

: 1398

01:11:47,011 --> 01:11:48,761

this Bitcoin game in the back of my head.

: 1399

01:11:48,761 --> 01:11:51,061

I was like, well, it seems like a nice

guy, but the game definitely sucks.

: 1400

01:11:51,731 --> 01:11:53,051

I was like, but I'll play with him.

: 1401

01:11:53,051 --> 01:11:54,111

I like, I like games.

: 1402

01:11:54,111 --> 01:11:55,021

I like competition.

: 1403

01:11:55,021 --> 01:11:56,041

Like I'll play the game.

: 1404

01:11:56,641 --> 01:12:02,161

And, uh, it wasn't just like a shitty

game with like Bitcoin bolted on.

: 1405

01:12:02,191 --> 01:12:03,171

It's a good game.

: 1406

01:12:03,181 --> 01:12:06,071

Like it's just a good game

regardless of, of Bitcoin.

: 1407

01:12:06,506 --> 01:12:11,946

Um, and, and yeah, so at that point,

after we recorded that, after we recorded,

: 1408

01:12:11,976 --> 01:12:15,666

after we played that game, which by

the way, I won and beat Scott, I was

: 1409

01:12:15,696 --> 01:12:18,876

wondering if that was going to come up

and I even caught Scott not following his

: 1410

01:12:18,876 --> 01:12:22,716

own rules, I called him out at one point

because I was keeping, don't trust verify

: 1411

01:12:22,716 --> 01:12:25,316

freaks, that's right, um, very proud.

: 1412

01:12:25,316 --> 01:12:27,496

I was like, we have to do

a dispatch on this game.

: 1413

01:12:27,861 --> 01:12:32,111

And homeschooling because you

guys are just massive amount

: 1414

01:12:32,111 --> 01:12:33,511

of knowledge in your heads.

: 1415

01:12:34,211 --> 01:12:36,751

Uh, I don't want to keep it to myself,

but anyway, let's talk about this game.

: 1416

01:12:36,761 --> 01:12:37,821

It's called huddle up.

: 1417

01:12:38,061 --> 01:12:40,651

Uh, people can find it at freemarketkids.

: 1418

01:12:40,651 --> 01:12:41,011

com.

: 1419

01:12:41,021 --> 01:12:42,081

Fantastic name.

: 1420

01:12:42,771 --> 01:12:46,351

Um, give us, let's start us

off, Scott, give us the show.

: 1421

01:12:46,641 --> 01:12:49,971

So, um, it's, um, I appreciate

those, uh, those words.

: 1422

01:12:49,971 --> 01:12:53,091

And I, it, it, I was, uh, just

blown away that you would actually

: 1423

01:12:53,091 --> 01:12:55,271

give the time to actually have a.

: 1424

01:12:55,826 --> 01:12:58,656

Stranger walk up to you and ask a favor.

: 1425

01:12:58,756 --> 01:13:02,646

Um, I was just kind of like, I was

just kind of wowing the whole way home.

: 1426

01:13:02,646 --> 01:13:05,026

Tommy's like, you know,

why is this big deal?

: 1427

01:13:05,026 --> 01:13:06,586

I'm like, don't you understand?

: 1428

01:13:06,616 --> 01:13:09,156

Like, this is so thanks

for thanks for that.

: 1429

01:13:09,476 --> 01:13:14,746

The, this, this combines

just a few passions for me.

: 1430

01:13:14,746 --> 01:13:15,486

So I've always liked.

: 1431

01:13:16,016 --> 01:13:16,416

Games.

: 1432

01:13:16,416 --> 01:13:18,046

There's a lot of benefits to them.

: 1433

01:13:18,606 --> 01:13:21,106

The fellowship, the in person,

you're away from the screen time.

: 1434

01:13:21,106 --> 01:13:23,766

There's a lot of, there are a lot

of things, but since we're talking

: 1435

01:13:23,766 --> 01:13:27,206

about education, there's, there's

also a lot of educational benefit.

: 1436

01:13:27,286 --> 01:13:31,236

So when the kids were young, for

example, we, we bought the Kiyosaki.

: 1437

01:13:31,551 --> 01:13:32,611

Cashflow for kids.

: 1438

01:13:32,611 --> 01:13:36,971

And you're always looking for

other ways to make the education,

: 1439

01:13:38,131 --> 01:13:41,751

the education wasn't always

just about the ABCs and math.

: 1440

01:13:41,901 --> 01:13:45,661

So Tali's like, I'm going to

put them into, I can't remember

: 1441

01:13:45,661 --> 01:13:46,671

all the different activities.

: 1442

01:13:46,721 --> 01:13:50,941

And then, so this, the games was

just another way of teaching.

: 1443

01:13:52,041 --> 01:13:55,181

When I met in business

school, so we, we've kind of.

: 1444

01:13:56,316 --> 01:13:59,566

We're inclined towards the financial

and economic side anyways, we're

: 1445

01:13:59,566 --> 01:14:03,296

like, we better, how can two MBAs

not teach their kids about things?

: 1446

01:14:03,556 --> 01:14:07,496

And the, the games are kind

of like the overlap of that.

: 1447

01:14:07,496 --> 01:14:10,816

It was, it was, I want

my kids to understand.

: 1448

01:14:11,631 --> 01:14:12,431

what this is.

: 1449

01:14:12,491 --> 01:14:17,491

I have a lot of other ideas of

things I want to teach them and

: 1450

01:14:17,561 --> 01:14:19,151

they are not always receptive.

: 1451

01:14:19,151 --> 01:14:21,011

Our kids are not always receptive.

: 1452

01:14:21,541 --> 01:14:22,831

They think it's another lecture.

: 1453

01:14:22,871 --> 01:14:25,881

You know, dad's excited about

something, mom's on a tangent on

: 1454

01:14:25,881 --> 01:14:31,881

whatever, whatever it is and and this

is a way where I, we could, I could

: 1455

01:14:31,891 --> 01:14:33,981

selfishly do something with my family.

: 1456

01:14:33,991 --> 01:14:36,261

My, my parents included,

my brother included.

: 1457

01:14:36,271 --> 01:14:40,021

They're, they don't understand why

Tali and I are passionate about.

: 1458

01:14:40,461 --> 01:14:46,601

About Bitcoin, but they were willing

to for two years help me play test

: 1459

01:14:46,601 --> 01:14:47,931

this game and work things out.

: 1460

01:14:47,991 --> 01:14:48,671

That's so cool.

: 1461

01:14:49,081 --> 01:14:55,441

So, okay, so I don't have to

strong arm them into doing this.

: 1462

01:14:56,071 --> 01:14:56,591

I have to.

: 1463

01:14:57,036 --> 01:14:57,776

And it was actually good.

: 1464

01:14:57,776 --> 01:15:00,816

My brother and I, we go to a game

conference every, every year.

: 1465

01:15:00,816 --> 01:15:01,296

We just love it.

: 1466

01:15:01,296 --> 01:15:02,556

And so we were play testing.

: 1467

01:15:02,556 --> 01:15:03,756

He's like, well, what's this wallet thing?

: 1468

01:15:04,496 --> 01:15:05,506

And we, we need to be able to do this.

: 1469

01:15:05,516 --> 01:15:07,636

And I go, no, you can't do that

because you can't do that in Bitcoin.

: 1470

01:15:07,636 --> 01:15:09,166

And he's like, well, I don't really care.

: 1471

01:15:09,166 --> 01:15:09,746

It's a game.

: 1472

01:15:10,446 --> 01:15:14,786

And so I, it forced me to go

back and do more research.

: 1473

01:15:14,916 --> 01:15:19,086

And so it forced me to learn

better what this really was.

: 1474

01:15:19,086 --> 01:15:20,356

And of course, the more I learned.

: 1475

01:15:21,236 --> 01:15:25,786

The more hardened I became about the

opportunity and the more excited I

: 1476

01:15:25,786 --> 01:15:29,506

got about it, but long story short,

this is the way this is what I

: 1477

01:15:29,516 --> 01:15:32,886

would like to have to selfishly to

be able to get with my own family.

: 1478

01:15:33,066 --> 01:15:35,956

And then Holly was like, well, kind

of put your money where your mouth

: 1479

01:15:35,956 --> 01:15:37,816

is with these with these ideas.

: 1480

01:15:37,816 --> 01:15:40,916

We're always telling the kids

they should start a business.

: 1481

01:15:41,346 --> 01:15:42,516

There's a lot of opportunities.

: 1482

01:15:42,516 --> 01:15:46,956

You don't have to look at the traditional

schooling, like universities, and

: 1483

01:15:46,966 --> 01:15:48,316

that was that's where it started.

: 1484

01:15:48,886 --> 01:15:49,746

It was just a combination.

: 1485

01:15:49,746 --> 01:15:51,226

I was passionate about the subject.

: 1486

01:15:51,511 --> 01:15:56,051

And to this day, the kids are well,

one of one of our, our daughters is.

: 1487

01:15:56,881 --> 01:16:00,321

Is actually excited about

investing in, in Bitcoin.

: 1488

01:16:01,321 --> 01:16:06,501

But someday what I'm hoping is they,

they come back, maybe it's a few

: 1489

01:16:06,501 --> 01:16:09,501

years or whatever it is, and they're

going to say, okay, now I'm ready.

: 1490

01:16:09,501 --> 01:16:11,291

And now I have this all packaged up.

: 1491

01:16:11,291 --> 01:16:14,591

I have the game and there were so

many elements I couldn't put into it.

: 1492

01:16:14,916 --> 01:16:18,446

I said, I'll just put those into a

book on the side and that's what the,

: 1493

01:16:18,696 --> 01:16:22,816

um, I'm building the, um, basically

I'm learning through games, 21 Bitcoin

: 1494

01:16:22,826 --> 01:16:25,576

lessons that you could go with the game.

: 1495

01:16:25,826 --> 01:16:27,736

And so selfishly, this is what I wanted.

: 1496

01:16:28,646 --> 01:16:32,036

And now, um, now I'm just really excited.

: 1497

01:16:32,036 --> 01:16:34,876

Like today, we got an opportunity

to, to, to introduce it to some

: 1498

01:16:34,876 --> 01:16:36,356

new folks here at Bitcoin Park.

: 1499

01:16:36,356 --> 01:16:41,016

And it's actually really exciting to

share with other Bitcoiners and not my

: 1500

01:16:41,016 --> 01:16:42,716

family who doesn't understand Bitcoin.

: 1501

01:16:43,491 --> 01:16:46,651

And then for them to say, Hey, I can

give this to my family or, Hey, I

: 1502

01:16:46,651 --> 01:16:47,931

can share this with somebody else.

: 1503

01:16:47,941 --> 01:16:48,571

And it's a way.

: 1504

01:16:48,571 --> 01:16:54,431

So if imagine this was in our schools

or if this was in our libraries, or this

: 1505

01:16:54,431 --> 01:16:59,401

was, if you had a Bitcoin meetup on a

regular basis, that was just game night.

: 1506

01:17:00,361 --> 01:17:04,001

There's a lot of opportunity where we

can help get these ideas out to others

: 1507

01:17:04,041 --> 01:17:09,721

without coming across as read this book or

listen to this podcast or whatever it is.

: 1508

01:17:10,351 --> 01:17:14,461

Um, but selfishly, I just like games

and I really enjoyed designing them.

: 1509

01:17:15,206 --> 01:17:18,796

And I really liked the education

side and that's kind of the, the

: 1510

01:17:18,796 --> 01:17:22,276

Genesis for, uh, for the game itself.

: 1511

01:17:22,526 --> 01:17:27,516

And the reason it took two years was one,

I, I was still learning Bitcoin and two,

: 1512

01:17:27,516 --> 01:17:31,816

it was really hard to figure out something

that was simple enough to play, but was

: 1513

01:17:31,846 --> 01:17:34,026

good enough that it brought up an idea to.

: 1514

01:17:34,526 --> 01:17:35,706

I'd actually want to talk about.

: 1515

01:17:36,906 --> 01:17:41,906

So my brother asked me, well, why are

the, why did the number of tokens go

: 1516

01:17:41,906 --> 01:17:43,646

down by half every once in a while?

: 1517

01:17:43,976 --> 01:17:44,216

Okay.

: 1518

01:17:44,216 --> 01:17:45,346

Well, that's a whole subject.

: 1519

01:17:46,126 --> 01:17:46,966

Why what's this wallet?

: 1520

01:17:46,966 --> 01:17:49,756

Why is a wallet have a, why is there

a cold wallet and a hot wallet?

: 1521

01:17:50,026 --> 01:17:50,716

Like who cares?

: 1522

01:17:50,726 --> 01:17:51,306

Like that kind of thing.

: 1523

01:17:51,336 --> 01:17:54,251

And so there's so many ways to have.

: 1524

01:17:54,761 --> 01:17:56,861

Conversations that are

just a starting point.

: 1525

01:17:56,961 --> 01:17:57,211

Yeah.

: 1526

01:17:57,361 --> 01:17:59,181

They're like the seeds that you can plant.

: 1527

01:17:59,191 --> 01:18:03,931

So, um, really excited to, to share

with others and have other people join

: 1528

01:18:03,931 --> 01:18:08,191

in games, I think, especially after

COVID being able to do things in person,

: 1529

01:18:08,191 --> 01:18:09,271

there's just something different.

: 1530

01:18:09,951 --> 01:18:11,161

And that's why.

: 1531

01:18:11,876 --> 01:18:14,726

You know, Matt, what you and Rod are

building here at the Bitcoin part.

: 1532

01:18:14,726 --> 01:18:18,556

This is why we're willing to drive

here is because like we get to connect.

: 1533

01:18:18,596 --> 01:18:19,516

How long is the drive?

: 1534

01:18:19,646 --> 01:18:20,286

Three hours.

: 1535

01:18:20,296 --> 01:18:20,786

Three hours.

: 1536

01:18:21,266 --> 01:18:27,096

And like, I can't describe to you how

much, like how valuable that is personally

: 1537

01:18:27,146 --> 01:18:31,675

to be able to come and then be with

people that you, that You can understand,

: 1538

01:18:31,876 --> 01:18:33,006

understand the way they're speaking.

: 1539

01:18:33,016 --> 01:18:36,256

You may not have the same background,

but there's a connection there.

: 1540

01:18:36,306 --> 01:18:41,856

And, um, to me, games are, games are

a way of, of connecting with people.

: 1541

01:18:41,976 --> 01:18:44,006

You don't have to feel like you

have to have a conversation going.

: 1542

01:18:44,006 --> 01:18:45,766

You can just sit there

and make small talk.

: 1543

01:18:46,366 --> 01:18:49,566

If you want to geek out like a

homeschooling dad and build a lecture in

: 1544

01:18:49,566 --> 01:18:51,776

it, you can go for it, or you can just.

: 1545

01:18:52,156 --> 01:18:57,436

Just play, we're just going to play and

so that's, um, that's where it started and

: 1546

01:18:57,436 --> 01:19:02,286

now I'm kind of getting more excited about

sharing it as I see people react to it.

: 1547

01:19:04,126 --> 01:19:09,536

So interesting, you know, really

creating the process of creating a game.

: 1548

01:19:09,606 --> 01:19:12,896

And as you said, building out the

effective game mechanics and really play

: 1549

01:19:12,896 --> 01:19:16,436

testing it and being able to distill

it down into the essential components.

: 1550

01:19:16,766 --> 01:19:23,226

While also creating a really profound

and correct educational opportunity.

: 1551

01:19:23,276 --> 01:19:27,026

That seems so challenging to me

and I haven't played it yet, but

: 1552

01:19:27,026 --> 01:19:28,666

I'm really, really excited to.

: 1553

01:19:29,026 --> 01:19:32,696

And I think also, as you said,

like having a physical game that.

: 1554

01:19:33,486 --> 01:19:37,556

Has mechanics that are exciting enough

so that someone who doesn't understand

: 1555

01:19:37,566 --> 01:19:39,656

Bitcoin still can enjoy the game.

: 1556

01:19:39,656 --> 01:19:41,956

I just think that's such a,

uh, an effective way of, you

: 1557

01:19:41,956 --> 01:19:44,896

know, in a positive sense, like

Trojan horsing what Bitcoin is.

: 1558

01:19:44,896 --> 01:19:45,786

Oh, absolutely.

: 1559

01:19:46,136 --> 01:19:46,476

It did.

: 1560

01:19:46,476 --> 01:19:47,916

I'll tell you just, uh, on that.

: 1561

01:19:47,916 --> 01:19:51,966

So for example, one of the biggest

arguments I got into with my

: 1562

01:19:51,966 --> 01:19:55,816

brother doing this was, I'm like,

you can't move someone's Bitcoin

: 1563

01:19:55,816 --> 01:19:56,746

if they don't have the keys.

: 1564

01:19:56,796 --> 01:19:57,206

That's it.

: 1565

01:19:58,016 --> 01:20:02,076

And his, his point was, well, if you

start out before the halving, You're

: 1566

01:20:02,076 --> 01:20:03,756

going to get a lot of the Bitcoin.

: 1567

01:20:03,756 --> 01:20:05,456

So whoever starts out, that's it.

: 1568

01:20:05,466 --> 01:20:06,086

The game's over.

: 1569

01:20:06,086 --> 01:20:07,696

There's no, you have to

be able to move stuff.

: 1570

01:20:08,836 --> 01:20:11,366

And that was probably one of the

things that we went back and forth

: 1571

01:20:11,376 --> 01:20:14,546

the longest on, and then it, what it

ended with for those that haven't.

: 1572

01:20:14,951 --> 01:20:18,971

Played obviously the the audience built

that in that you can try to have a

: 1573

01:20:18,971 --> 01:20:23,951

transaction to move something and someone

can fight If your bitcoin is on the hot

: 1574

01:20:23,951 --> 01:20:29,671

side of the your your card it's vulnerable

you roll the die and you got a chance that

: 1575

01:20:29,671 --> 01:20:34,986

someone did a phishing scam or they they

they did a sim swap or some other They

: 1576

01:20:34,986 --> 01:20:38,586

did something else to you, but there's

also a risk for the person who's attacking

: 1577

01:20:38,586 --> 01:20:42,766

you that you successfully defended

and you get to, to, to move it on.

: 1578

01:20:42,766 --> 01:20:47,536

So it turned out to be a really

great learning point, but there

: 1579

01:20:47,536 --> 01:20:50,326

was a lot of back and forth of

like, just, well, it's a game.

: 1580

01:20:50,326 --> 01:20:51,386

It has to be playable.

: 1581

01:20:51,746 --> 01:20:52,776

So how do you work in there?

: 1582

01:20:52,776 --> 01:20:57,866

But I'm like, yeah, but I can't compromise

on, I can't compromise on how it works.

: 1583

01:20:57,866 --> 01:20:59,856

And so it's not perfect.

: 1584

01:20:59,866 --> 01:21:02,046

There's some things in there

that are not a hundred percent.

: 1585

01:21:02,731 --> 01:21:06,611

Exactly right in terms of terminology,

but I just try to squeeze everything

: 1586

01:21:06,611 --> 01:21:10,851

I could in there to to do it that

that that was one of the ones that I

: 1587

01:21:10,851 --> 01:21:13,561

think now is a good thing as I watch

people play because there's a lot of

: 1588

01:21:13,561 --> 01:21:18,821

conversation about protecting your your

Bitcoin and there's a chance if you are

: 1589

01:21:18,821 --> 01:21:22,511

behind being a game you can actually

catch up so you can still Yeah, I can

: 1590

01:21:22,511 --> 01:21:25,791

play with my brother and I don't have

to worry about discussing keys with him.

: 1591

01:21:25,791 --> 01:21:27,050

I can just play the game.

: 1592

01:21:27,541 --> 01:21:28,111

We're good.

: 1593

01:21:28,701 --> 01:21:34,216

So I think one of the things that the

game helped me personally is seeing the

: 1594

01:21:34,496 --> 01:21:37,996

blockchain visually and seeing how it's

constructed, even though it's just a model

: 1595

01:21:39,136 --> 01:21:44,296

to help me understand the abstract idea

of the blockchain, because I'm not techie.

: 1596

01:21:44,306 --> 01:21:47,341

And when people talk blockchain,

It just goes over my head.

: 1597

01:21:47,351 --> 01:21:52,501

I don't know why, why a string of

numbers should mean anything at

: 1598

01:21:52,501 --> 01:21:56,381

all until he put out this game and

started explaining things to me.

: 1599

01:21:56,381 --> 01:21:57,931

I'm like, Oh, that's what

you're talking about.

: 1600

01:21:58,231 --> 01:22:00,711

It's just sometimes you just

need to touch something, right?

: 1601

01:22:01,611 --> 01:22:02,641

I'm a big believer in that.

: 1602

01:22:03,941 --> 01:22:06,961

That's also like when Scott was

like trying to explain the rules.

: 1603

01:22:06,961 --> 01:22:08,741

It's like, can we just play

the, can we just play the game?

: 1604

01:22:09,201 --> 01:22:11,550

Yeah, I like learning by fire.

: 1605

01:22:11,871 --> 01:22:14,311

That's going to influence how we do

game nights, by the way, we're not

: 1606

01:22:14,311 --> 01:22:15,261

going to show them videos or anything.

: 1607

01:22:15,261 --> 01:22:16,961

We're just going to go, okay,

we're just going to jump right

: 1608

01:22:16,961 --> 01:22:17,561

in and start doing stuff.

: 1609

01:22:17,881 --> 01:22:21,701

Yeah, we're going to do, we're going

to do game nights at Bitcoin Park with

: 1610

01:22:21,711 --> 01:22:27,431

Scott and Tali, uh, so people can play

the game firsthand, uh, be a lot of fun.

: 1611

01:22:27,461 --> 01:22:30,751

I mean, Scott was mentioning that right

before this podcast, uh, we had a bunch

: 1612

01:22:30,751 --> 01:22:34,041

of people at Bitcoin Park playing the game

and I, Scott, like kind of looked at me.

: 1613

01:22:34,041 --> 01:22:35,231

He's like, do we have

enough time for the podcast?

: 1614

01:22:35,271 --> 01:22:36,761

I was like, Scott, go get the game.

: 1615

01:22:36,800 --> 01:22:37,741

Let's play the game.

: 1616

01:22:37,751 --> 01:22:38,751

Like we have to play it.

: 1617

01:22:40,151 --> 01:22:42,576

I I, you tried to get me to

play and I was like, no, no.

: 1618

01:22:42,726 --> 01:22:44,716

I went around and immediately

I was like, I fucked up.

: 1619

01:22:44,716 --> 01:22:45,706

I should, I should be playing this game.

: 1620

01:22:45,706 --> 01:22:46,336

It looks so much fun.

: 1621

01:22:46,336 --> 01:22:48,646

So instead we roped him

into the podcast, . Oh yeah.

: 1622

01:22:50,175 --> 01:22:53,536

No, but I'd appreciate that you're,

I I mean it's, it was that, that

: 1623

01:22:53,541 --> 01:22:56,356

experience of playing the first

time here was, it was great.

: 1624

01:22:56,356 --> 01:22:59,986

'cause you guys were the first

Bitcoiners that I had to test it with.

: 1625

01:22:59,986 --> 01:23:00,796

That's interesting.

: 1626

01:23:00,800 --> 01:23:01,050

Mm-Hmm.

: 1627

01:23:01,231 --> 01:23:03,566

. And I wasn't sure how it was gonna fly.

: 1628

01:23:03,566 --> 01:23:05,066

Like, you know, you had a good game there.

: 1629

01:23:05,066 --> 01:23:07,886

But you didn't know if it was Actually

I didn't, yeah, I didn't know.

: 1630

01:23:07,886 --> 01:23:09,131

Held up with big Bitcoin, but I already.

: 1631

01:23:09,800 --> 01:23:16,231

It already kind of committed to it along

the way to, to make it, but, um, but I

: 1632

01:23:16,231 --> 01:23:19,861

mean, it took you, you guys picked up the

concepts much faster, I think, than people

: 1633

01:23:19,861 --> 01:23:24,300

who are not used to the terminology and

other things that are in the, in the game.

: 1634

01:23:25,151 --> 01:23:29,201

Um, and so I was, yeah, even though you

beat me, which I was not happy about, but

: 1635

01:23:29,201 --> 01:23:32,461

I, but I was like, wow, they, they got it.

: 1636

01:23:32,491 --> 01:23:37,581

Like they, and I was like, that

actually was really, um, fulfilling to.

: 1637

01:23:37,846 --> 01:23:38,416

To do that.

: 1638

01:23:38,496 --> 01:23:40,646

I, I just, it was really,

it was really kind of a cool

: 1639

01:23:40,646 --> 01:23:41,836

moment for me personally to see.

: 1640

01:23:42,806 --> 01:23:45,526

Okay, Bitcoiners,

Bitcoiners are okay with it.

: 1641

01:23:46,816 --> 01:23:47,526

Okay, all right.

: 1642

01:23:47,526 --> 01:23:49,706

That's what, that was,

that was like the test.

: 1643

01:23:49,736 --> 01:23:52,896

If, if Bitcoin, because if you, if you

looked at it and said, huh, good luck.

: 1644

01:23:53,306 --> 01:23:53,706

Right.

: 1645

01:23:53,706 --> 01:23:57,656

I mean, and one of the Bitcoiners that

we had playing with us, uh, this great

: 1646

01:23:57,675 --> 01:24:00,366

dude, Ben, I was hoping he was going

to join us for this conversation,

: 1647

01:24:00,366 --> 01:24:02,675

but Schedules and we moved it up.

: 1648

01:24:03,186 --> 01:24:06,776

He actually, he had bought the game

from you and then he brought it back

: 1649

01:24:06,786 --> 01:24:10,026

for Christmas and was playing it with

his family who were not Bitcoiners.

: 1650

01:24:10,316 --> 01:24:11,446

It's on the opposite side.

: 1651

01:24:11,546 --> 01:24:12,706

He said it went really well.

: 1652

01:24:13,446 --> 01:24:16,936

Um, and they started to actually

understand it and it makes sense

: 1653

01:24:16,946 --> 01:24:21,296

because if you go back to Why you

created this game in the first

: 1654

01:24:21,296 --> 01:24:25,066

place is you were a bit of the crazy

Bitcoiner in the family, right?

: 1655

01:24:25,336 --> 01:24:28,206

And you're like, how can I show that?

: 1656

01:24:28,206 --> 01:24:30,016

I'm not at least completely crazy.

: 1657

01:24:31,286 --> 01:24:35,356

So I'm gonna go build this game So you

guys will learn I would love to talk to

: 1658

01:24:35,356 --> 01:24:38,536

him about how the feedback from yeah,

we'll talk He'll be here this week.

: 1659

01:24:38,536 --> 01:24:40,506

So you'll you'll be able

to talk to him about it.

: 1660

01:24:41,606 --> 01:24:43,126

He was very excited He brought it up.

: 1661

01:24:43,126 --> 01:24:43,646

Not me.

: 1662

01:24:44,296 --> 01:24:44,886

Oh wonderful.

: 1663

01:24:44,896 --> 01:24:45,726

Very excited.

: 1664

01:24:45,826 --> 01:24:50,896

Yeah, but anyway, so

Where do we go with this?

: 1665

01:24:52,276 --> 01:25:00,591

So it's a board game I love board games,

um, up to six players can play, uh,

: 1666

01:25:02,441 --> 01:25:06,931

and a lot of surface level concepts

are, are, are, it's, it's, there's,

: 1667

01:25:06,941 --> 01:25:10,971

there's an educational element to it,

um, it's, but it's just also just a fun

: 1668

01:25:10,971 --> 01:25:16,441

competitive game that works, um, so,

so what are the educational elements,

: 1669

01:25:16,471 --> 01:25:21,871

uh, there's a difficulty adjustment in

it, which is, which is key, halving is

: 1670

01:25:21,871 --> 01:25:28,741

obviously massive, block reward, block

subsidy, Um, hot and cold wallets, every

: 1671

01:25:28,741 --> 01:25:32,031

player has a hot and cold wallet and

if your bitcoins in your hot wallet, it

: 1672

01:25:32,031 --> 01:25:36,911

can be taken from you because you, you

can choose to invest in mining, right?

: 1673

01:25:36,961 --> 01:25:41,691

And you can also invest, yes, you can, you

can exchange your, your Bitcoin and invest

: 1674

01:25:41,691 --> 01:25:46,800

in additional rigs that you get additional

nonce cards or additional chances to mine.

: 1675

01:25:47,111 --> 01:25:49,861

I wanted something to reward

people for making that investment.

: 1676

01:25:51,101 --> 01:25:52,781

Um, you also have the halving event.

: 1677

01:25:52,791 --> 01:25:55,661

I think we mentioned that before.

: 1678

01:25:55,661 --> 01:26:01,511

The halving really, uh, it's visceral.

: 1679

01:26:02,071 --> 01:26:04,661

It captures the FOMO of

the halving very well.

: 1680

01:26:05,431 --> 01:26:08,391

As you're playing, you're like, Oh my God,

there's not enough Bitcoin to go around.

: 1681

01:26:08,401 --> 01:26:10,141

Like, I need this Bitcoin now.

: 1682

01:26:10,231 --> 01:26:10,800

That's so funny.

: 1683

01:26:10,800 --> 01:26:12,761

I wonder how many people

are going to play this game.

: 1684

01:26:13,266 --> 01:26:16,916

And then it's going to fundamentally

change their strategy around how they

: 1685

01:26:16,916 --> 01:26:18,216

acquire Bitcoin in the real world.

: 1686

01:26:20,066 --> 01:26:26,826

No, if it'll be that big, I, um, I, I

feel like I, it was to, to your point

: 1687

01:26:26,826 --> 01:26:30,506

though, what was interesting is that so

we've played this with like homeschooling

: 1688

01:26:30,516 --> 01:26:37,096

kids that come over and there's always a

different dynamic and how people play it.

: 1689

01:26:37,376 --> 01:26:41,126

And when this first game

with, with Bitcoiners.

: 1690

01:26:41,675 --> 01:26:44,916

Like it took like one or two

hands and then they clicked in.

: 1691

01:26:46,196 --> 01:26:49,696

And then it was like, I started to hear

comments, like there's a having coming

: 1692

01:26:49,696 --> 01:26:51,566

up, so maybe I should do this instead.

: 1693

01:26:51,796 --> 01:26:54,925

And they're like, well, maybe,

but so and so is ahead right now.

: 1694

01:26:54,925 --> 01:26:56,016

Here's a difficulty adjustment.

: 1695

01:26:56,036 --> 01:26:57,376

Maybe I should go to cold storage.

: 1696

01:26:57,376 --> 01:26:58,126

There was all these.

: 1697

01:26:58,896 --> 01:27:03,046

Like thought processes that people

were vocalizing and I just loved it.

: 1698

01:27:03,046 --> 01:27:06,876

I was like, because there's, there's

elements of chance in there, but

: 1699

01:27:06,876 --> 01:27:10,956

you also can make decisions on the

collusion and all that stuff, right?

: 1700

01:27:10,956 --> 01:27:14,206

So it introduces, I think, Matt,

to your question that there's, um,

: 1701

01:27:14,425 --> 01:27:18,916

when I wrote the book, there were 12

different chapters that are just kind

: 1702

01:27:18,916 --> 01:27:22,026

of fundamental Bitcoin, things like

the having or the difficult adjustment.

: 1703

01:27:22,581 --> 01:27:26,691

I have one chapter just on bad actors,

which is the die, and so I broke that

: 1704

01:27:26,691 --> 01:27:31,621

out, and then the remaining nine chapters

are on each of the, there's one type of

: 1705

01:27:31,621 --> 01:27:35,451

card in the game that you need to make a

transaction called a hash card, and that's

: 1706

01:27:35,451 --> 01:27:37,031

what links things on the time chain.

: 1707

01:27:37,251 --> 01:27:41,261

So every, every block you,

you, you put down has to be

: 1708

01:27:41,261 --> 01:27:42,331

linked to the one before it.

: 1709

01:27:43,541 --> 01:27:48,136

And the Those cards all have

a unique expression on them.

: 1710

01:27:48,136 --> 01:27:51,476

There's no, no two are the same,

no two hashes are the same.

: 1711

01:27:51,696 --> 01:27:54,836

And that was my personal compromise

for all the other things that

: 1712

01:27:54,836 --> 01:27:58,066

I wish I could have brought in

and to talk about, but couldn't.

: 1713

01:27:58,986 --> 01:28:01,386

So I just have a lot of

vocabulary on, on there.

: 1714

01:28:01,386 --> 01:28:04,556

And so the last nine chapters

basically take the theme of those.

: 1715

01:28:04,616 --> 01:28:06,276

So these are themes about frameworks.

: 1716

01:28:06,276 --> 01:28:08,626

These are themes about, you

know, other, other things.

: 1717

01:28:09,256 --> 01:28:11,046

And you can use it more

like a, as a reference.

: 1718

01:28:11,556 --> 01:28:14,856

If you're new to Bitcoin, all I

wanted to do is introduce the, the

: 1719

01:28:14,886 --> 01:28:17,436

terminology and the links to information.

: 1720

01:28:17,436 --> 01:28:21,056

If you're curious about what it's

so snore singers, how to say it?

: 1721

01:28:21,056 --> 01:28:21,776

Snore signatures.

: 1722

01:28:21,836 --> 01:28:22,196

How do you say it?

: 1723

01:28:22,196 --> 01:28:22,556

Snore.

: 1724

01:28:22,646 --> 01:28:22,976

Schor.

: 1725

01:28:23,096 --> 01:28:23,366

Snore.

: 1726

01:28:24,326 --> 01:28:27,506

I read that, I must've read that thing

multiple times on what those are.

: 1727

01:28:27,511 --> 01:28:28,496

I still couldn't explain.

: 1728

01:28:28,496 --> 01:28:29,756

I'm like, okay, well

I'm gonna get it down.

: 1729

01:28:30,536 --> 01:28:32,936

A couple things on this, and if

anybody's curious about it, I'm gonna

: 1730

01:28:32,936 --> 01:28:34,226

send 'em to the links that I found.

: 1731

01:28:35,006 --> 01:28:39,425

The second half of the, of the,

of the book was just depending

: 1732

01:28:39,425 --> 01:28:41,046

on where your curiosity goes.

: 1733

01:28:41,556 --> 01:28:44,346

You could, I could find the resources

that I had found over the last

: 1734

01:28:44,346 --> 01:28:46,056

couple of years to send people.

: 1735

01:28:46,076 --> 01:28:48,766

So the first, the first half of it

is purely kind of what we've been

: 1736

01:28:48,766 --> 01:28:52,326

talking about, where the mechanics

of the game teach you something.

: 1737

01:28:52,826 --> 01:28:55,936

And then the second half is

really an introduction to kind

: 1738

01:28:55,936 --> 01:28:58,446

of Bitcoin 101 terminology.

: 1739

01:28:58,946 --> 01:29:02,956

Yeah, I like the concept in general

of, uh, you have a game and then

: 1740

01:29:02,956 --> 01:29:04,406

you have a book attached to it.

: 1741

01:29:05,376 --> 01:29:08,056

So it's like really like an

educational first mindset.

: 1742

01:29:08,936 --> 01:29:09,686

With games.

: 1743

01:29:09,756 --> 01:29:10,356

Exactly.

: 1744

01:29:10,566 --> 01:29:10,786

Right.

: 1745

01:29:10,816 --> 01:29:14,196

This is the, this is what I would

have wanted, you know, if not knowing

: 1746

01:29:14,206 --> 01:29:17,596

Bitcoin, if someone had given me a game

and I wanted to play with my kids and

: 1747

01:29:17,596 --> 01:29:22,326

understand and we, we like Talia and I

wanted to teach about it, this would be

: 1748

01:29:22,326 --> 01:29:26,726

the, what I would want as a resource to

go and find the things to, to talk about.

: 1749

01:29:27,386 --> 01:29:31,656

Um, and so it, and sort of like

homeschooling, homeschooling, when

: 1750

01:29:31,656 --> 01:29:34,186

you go back and revisit things

you're teaching your kids, you find

: 1751

01:29:34,186 --> 01:29:35,166

that you learn things you didn't.

: 1752

01:29:35,681 --> 01:29:40,961

You didn't recall from school history

or whatever by going back and trying

: 1753

01:29:40,961 --> 01:29:46,631

to write put those things in writing I

found all the different things that I

: 1754

01:29:46,651 --> 01:29:50,731

thought I knew but didn't really know and

I had to do extra homework So I actually

: 1755

01:29:51,531 --> 01:29:56,996

I actually selfishly learned more by

making it then Even if no one else ever

: 1756

01:29:56,996 --> 01:29:59,386

picks it up, I had to go through it.

: 1757

01:29:59,396 --> 01:30:02,566

It's something about writing it

down forces you to, you have to,

: 1758

01:30:02,606 --> 01:30:05,026

you have to actually think through

what you're, you're, you're writing.

: 1759

01:30:05,026 --> 01:30:11,326

So, um, so I learned a lot, uh, you know,

from that, but my goal is now to share

: 1760

01:30:11,326 --> 01:30:16,175

that with, that you can just say, I have a

friend, the family or, uh, whoever it is,

: 1761

01:30:16,175 --> 01:30:17,866

it could be a school library, whatever.

: 1762

01:30:18,466 --> 01:30:20,206

Here's the book that goes with the game.

: 1763

01:30:20,206 --> 01:30:22,216

It's a pair and.

: 1764

01:30:22,866 --> 01:30:26,216

And now just play and then if you,

you're interested in, as you become

: 1765

01:30:26,216 --> 01:30:30,366

curious about things, this, this is

a place that will send you off to

: 1766

01:30:30,386 --> 01:30:32,336

start your, your rabbit hole journey.

: 1767

01:30:33,866 --> 01:30:36,576

I immediately imagine like going

to Thanksgiving with my family and

: 1768

01:30:36,576 --> 01:30:39,126

just locking them all in a room and

being like, you can't come out until

: 1769

01:30:39,126 --> 01:30:40,636

you understand this, this, and this.

: 1770

01:30:40,636 --> 01:30:43,756

And then just yelling through

the door, what is a hot wallet?

: 1771

01:30:45,175 --> 01:30:47,776

I'm curious what your experience

of the process has been of

: 1772

01:30:47,776 --> 01:30:48,816

this game being designed.

: 1773

01:30:48,816 --> 01:30:49,266

Like, yeah.

: 1774

01:30:50,166 --> 01:30:52,866

So real quick, uh, we have a Bitcoin.

: 1775

01:30:53,441 --> 01:30:55,911

Is the username in, uh, the chat.

: 1776

01:30:55,931 --> 01:30:57,381

If you go to freemarketkids.

: 1777

01:30:57,381 --> 01:30:58,550

com, you can buy the game.

: 1778

01:30:58,741 --> 01:31:01,591

Uh, you can pay with

credit card or Bitcoin.

: 1779

01:31:01,621 --> 01:31:03,821

Bitcoin is accepted if you

go through the prompts.

: 1780

01:31:04,021 --> 01:31:07,721

Uh, you'll, you'll be, you'll be

given an option between paying with

: 1781

01:31:07,721 --> 01:31:08,941

credit card or paying with Bitcoin.

: 1782

01:31:09,101 --> 01:31:10,881

They asked why they

couldn't pay with Bitcoin.

: 1783

01:31:11,411 --> 01:31:12,741

And the game, by the way, is Huddle Up.

: 1784

01:31:12,771 --> 01:31:14,351

There's a couple different

games that are on the website.

: 1785

01:31:14,351 --> 01:31:14,851

It's Huddle Up.

: 1786

01:31:14,911 --> 01:31:15,311

Yeah.

: 1787

01:31:15,951 --> 01:31:17,861

So I'm, I'm thinking

about adding something.

: 1788

01:31:17,951 --> 01:31:21,351

I'm new to building websites, but we'll,

to put something on there on the front.

: 1789

01:31:21,681 --> 01:31:25,101

To set to space, say, Hey,

you can buy it with Bitcoin.

: 1790

01:31:25,101 --> 01:31:27,050

Here's how you do it on there.

: 1791

01:31:27,050 --> 01:31:30,331

And then the second thing to call

out is that the book it's written.

: 1792

01:31:30,401 --> 01:31:33,371

I'm doing the editing phase

now and the formatting so that

: 1793

01:31:33,571 --> 01:31:34,771

I can't ship that out yet.

: 1794

01:31:34,951 --> 01:31:38,976

Probably a month out, maybe six weeks

out from being able to To do that,

: 1795

01:31:38,976 --> 01:31:40,576

the games I have in stock right now.

: 1796

01:31:42,566 --> 01:31:43,686

Getting back to your question, Pete.

: 1797

01:31:43,686 --> 01:31:44,106

Yes.

: 1798

01:31:45,106 --> 01:31:47,936

Scott started talking to me

about Bitcoin a few years ago.

: 1799

01:31:48,086 --> 01:31:51,616

And when he first mentioned

it to me, I put up my hand.

: 1800

01:31:51,616 --> 01:31:53,876

I said, talk to the hand

because I don't have time.

: 1801

01:31:54,206 --> 01:31:55,036

I don't know what it is.

: 1802

01:31:55,076 --> 01:31:56,096

I don't understand it.

: 1803

01:31:56,326 --> 01:31:58,406

I've got other things

I'm trying to finish.

: 1804

01:31:58,416 --> 01:32:00,706

You know, homeschooling the kids

last few years of high school.

: 1805

01:32:00,736 --> 01:32:02,796

I'm like, I can't talk

about this right now.

: 1806

01:32:03,896 --> 01:32:06,736

And then he started creating

this prototype for the game.

: 1807

01:32:07,671 --> 01:32:09,371

And the, and I didn't want to play it.

: 1808

01:32:11,491 --> 01:32:15,041

I really, I was, it just, it was

so, the concept was so foreign.

: 1809

01:32:15,071 --> 01:32:21,121

I can't wrap, I couldn't wrap my

head around the thought that a

: 1810

01:32:21,121 --> 01:32:23,821

string of numbers and letters can.

: 1811

01:32:24,411 --> 01:32:25,021

be money.

: 1812

01:32:25,971 --> 01:32:32,501

And it was through many, um, prototypes

that his brother was so patiently

: 1813

01:32:32,931 --> 01:32:37,550

working on with him that I eventually

started to understand to the point where

: 1814

01:32:37,581 --> 01:32:39,621

I wanted to listen to a book about it.

: 1815

01:32:40,351 --> 01:32:44,300

So the book that I listened

to, uh, was called hard money.

: 1816

01:32:44,300 --> 01:32:45,050

You can't F with.

: 1817

01:32:45,881 --> 01:32:47,571

And by the end of the book, I was sold.

: 1818

01:32:48,231 --> 01:32:50,541

And then his game took

on a whole new meaning.

: 1819

01:32:50,550 --> 01:32:54,721

And I was really trying to understand

it, but if he had not created that

: 1820

01:32:54,721 --> 01:33:01,026

game, I would still be having a really

hard time trying to grasp the concept

: 1821

01:33:01,175 --> 01:33:03,186

of the code and things like that.

: 1822

01:33:03,186 --> 01:33:04,146

I'm just not a techie.

: 1823

01:33:04,506 --> 01:33:04,806

I'm not.

: 1824

01:33:05,516 --> 01:33:10,276

Yeah, so I have found that to be so

helpful because everybody that I talk to

: 1825

01:33:10,286 --> 01:33:15,786

who isn't a BitCorner, who knows about

Bitcoin, their first response to me is,

: 1826

01:33:16,246 --> 01:33:20,286

Oh, I need to learn more about Bitcoin,

but in their mind, it requires hours

: 1827

01:33:20,286 --> 01:33:23,516

and hours of listening to podcasts and

reading books and reading articles and

: 1828

01:33:23,526 --> 01:33:27,146

endless, you know, like a long list of

research that they have to do, like,

: 1829

01:33:27,146 --> 01:33:29,056

but you can understand the fundamentals.

: 1830

01:33:29,086 --> 01:33:30,806

If you play this one board game, it takes.

: 1831

01:33:31,226 --> 01:33:37,886

30 minutes, and then the major part of

Bitcoin will be explained, or at least

: 1832

01:33:37,886 --> 01:33:39,696

you have enough knowledge to go forward.

: 1833

01:33:39,696 --> 01:33:44,776

You have a foundation, a framework

for thinking about it, at least.

: 1834

01:33:45,246 --> 01:33:45,536

Right.

: 1835

01:33:45,656 --> 01:33:49,056

And then you have the book attached

to it if you want to go further,

: 1836

01:33:49,606 --> 01:33:50,516

further down the rabbit hole.

: 1837

01:33:50,526 --> 01:33:50,896

Exactly.

: 1838

01:33:50,896 --> 01:33:55,486

Yeah, that was, that's a good

question though, because.

: 1839

01:33:56,486 --> 01:34:00,156

She doesn't always want to play the

games, and I want to play games a lot, and

: 1840

01:34:00,796 --> 01:34:05,146

there's some tension there, um, but it's,

it's been, it's been kind of a journey,

: 1841

01:34:05,146 --> 01:34:07,896

and now I've gotten her to the point

where she's okay to play a game every

: 1842

01:34:07,896 --> 01:34:11,026

once in a while, so we're getting, we're

getting better, it's like a game therapy.

: 1843

01:34:11,026 --> 01:34:14,835

I mean, this game is literally

a love child, really.

: 1844

01:34:14,916 --> 01:34:16,466

I mean, he, we have poor soul.

: 1845

01:34:17,046 --> 01:34:23,626

Much time and effort into it and I'll

give you an example one time Our youngest

: 1846

01:34:23,646 --> 01:34:27,166

was a home that the three were overseas

and Scott was trying to work out some

: 1847

01:34:28,156 --> 01:34:32,736

Just nuances in the instructions just

the instructions and they had a debate

: 1848

01:34:32,746 --> 01:34:38,556

for an hour That was how seriously

our youngest took the instructions.

: 1849

01:34:38,936 --> 01:34:43,306

They debated over the wording over

the, I think, the first two sentences.

: 1850

01:34:43,306 --> 01:34:47,936

And at the very end of it, both of them

were mad, and they didn't play the game.

: 1851

01:34:49,286 --> 01:34:51,856

You had asked before, like,

your kids, when they could stand

: 1852

01:34:51,856 --> 01:34:52,886

up and think for themselves.

: 1853

01:34:53,166 --> 01:34:55,226

This was at the time, I

think he was, was he 15?

: 1854

01:34:55,276 --> 01:34:55,636

14?

: 1855

01:34:55,636 --> 01:34:56,906

I don't know.

: 1856

01:34:56,906 --> 01:34:58,156

But we argued over it.

: 1857

01:34:58,556 --> 01:35:01,755

And then I'm like, listen,

he's like, why is this?

: 1858

01:35:01,776 --> 01:35:04,636

And I go, well, you know, and then

I found a YouTube video that showed

: 1859

01:35:04,636 --> 01:35:08,096

visually the building of a blockchain.

: 1860

01:35:08,126 --> 01:35:09,956

I go, this, you watch this video.

: 1861

01:35:09,986 --> 01:35:10,746

You have to watch this video.

: 1862

01:35:10,876 --> 01:35:11,626

I don't want to watch this video.

: 1863

01:35:11,666 --> 01:35:17,796

It was, it was, it was, it

was so maddening as a parent.

: 1864

01:35:18,050 --> 01:35:23,151

To, to, to go through that, but if

you, you know, you fast forward, he's

: 1865

01:35:23,151 --> 01:35:24,601

a more technical one in the family.

: 1866

01:35:24,601 --> 01:35:28,251

He actually is the one when you, on the

website, there's a, an explainer video.

: 1867

01:35:28,341 --> 01:35:32,921

I know people want to learn by, by doing

the, the one that I had the argument

: 1868

01:35:32,921 --> 01:35:36,921

with is the one that did the animation on

the ultimately on the how to play video.

: 1869

01:35:37,300 --> 01:35:39,831

So we've, we've come forward.

: 1870

01:35:40,591 --> 01:35:42,130

Yeah, it's a labor of love.

: 1871

01:35:43,281 --> 01:35:46,630

But, but I'm ha I am grateful that

now I can have those conversations

: 1872

01:35:46,630 --> 01:35:50,071

with the kids that without the game

I wouldn't have been able to, so.

: 1873

01:35:50,841 --> 01:35:52,501

Well, you can see it in the final product.

: 1874

01:35:52,561 --> 01:35:54,511

There was a lot of love

that went into it, clearly.

: 1875

01:35:54,960 --> 01:35:56,281

And a lot of care and thought.

: 1876

01:35:56,901 --> 01:36:03,706

Um, I mean, Scott asked me for my

feedback, but he also told me After he

: 1877

01:36:03,706 --> 01:36:07,186

asked me for his feedback that he had

already made 500 versions of the game.

: 1878

01:36:07,346 --> 01:36:09,925

So, um, I'm glad you nailed it.

: 1879

01:36:11,476 --> 01:36:12,466

There could be an addition too.

: 1880

01:36:13,536 --> 01:36:17,696

I told Scott that for his future games,

I expect to be brought into the feedback

: 1881

01:36:17,696 --> 01:36:19,906

process before the game is ready.

: 1882

01:36:19,906 --> 01:36:23,966

I will say publicly, I commit to

bringing you things ahead of time.

: 1883

01:36:23,966 --> 01:36:30,691

No, but yeah, you, uh, yeah, I can't speak

highly enough of this game and, uh, The

: 1884

01:36:30,691 --> 01:36:34,021

freaks, the audience should, you guys

should consider going out and buying it.

: 1885

01:36:34,050 --> 01:36:37,161

You can pay with Bitcoin, like I said,

or credit card free market, kids.

: 1886

01:36:37,341 --> 01:36:37,811

com.

: 1887

01:36:38,300 --> 01:36:42,356

Um, I joke about it being printed,

but there will be, you know,

: 1888

01:36:42,696 --> 01:36:45,236

follow on versions of the game,

different versions and stuff.

: 1889

01:36:45,236 --> 01:36:48,546

So, Scott is happy to, he

would love feedback, right?

: 1890

01:36:48,906 --> 01:36:50,046

I love feedback.

: 1891

01:36:50,046 --> 01:36:53,046

He took the feedback very

well, that I gave him.

: 1892

01:36:53,656 --> 01:36:55,806

That's actually in the book, if

I can interrupt you real quick.

: 1893

01:36:55,806 --> 01:36:59,425

I actually write saying, hey listen,

if something's not right in this

: 1894

01:36:59,616 --> 01:37:04,511

book, I own it, but this is sort

of like open source learning.

: 1895

01:37:04,901 --> 01:37:05,201

Right.

: 1896

01:37:05,201 --> 01:37:08,341

I, my ask is tell me where I got it wrong.

: 1897

01:37:08,351 --> 01:37:08,541

Right.

: 1898

01:37:08,541 --> 01:37:11,331

There'll be V2s of the

book and digital versions.

: 1899

01:37:11,331 --> 01:37:13,141

And yeah, cause I want to get

better and I want to give up.

: 1900

01:37:13,766 --> 01:37:14,486

Good information.

: 1901

01:37:14,486 --> 01:37:18,585

So I really, really do

welcome advice and feedback.

: 1902

01:37:19,346 --> 01:37:21,566

And, uh, if you go to Bitcoinpark.

: 1903

01:37:21,616 --> 01:37:28,755

co and join our meetup group, you will

get notified when we do the game nights.

: 1904

01:37:28,755 --> 01:37:30,835

There's going to be multiple

game nights at Bitcoin Park

: 1905

01:37:30,835 --> 01:37:32,106

that I'm looking forward to.

: 1906

01:37:34,851 --> 01:37:35,421

What else?

: 1907

01:37:35,791 --> 01:37:36,491

P is going to play.

: 1908

01:37:37,001 --> 01:37:38,731

P is going to play, I will.

: 1909

01:37:39,241 --> 01:37:41,441

We're going to lock him in a room and tell

him he can't have dinner until he plays.

: 1910

01:37:42,351 --> 01:37:44,791

Based on his own strategy with

his family that he disclosed.

: 1911

01:37:44,791 --> 01:37:46,421

I tell you, watch out when

you play against Matt.

: 1912

01:37:46,421 --> 01:37:48,781

I'm excited.

: 1913

01:37:49,411 --> 01:37:52,431

And I can't believe he beat you at your

own game, which is a measure in my mind.

: 1914

01:37:52,441 --> 01:37:55,210

Never got, I've never gotten to

play a founder at his own game too.

: 1915

01:37:55,221 --> 01:38:00,335

That was, yeah, I was, I was actually,

when we, Thought about doing the podcast.

: 1916

01:38:00,366 --> 01:38:02,366

I was like, how long before this comes up?

: 1917

01:38:03,616 --> 01:38:05,306

And it was very proud of it.

: 1918

01:38:05,556 --> 01:38:10,606

I'm more proud of the fact that I caught,

so like the way it works is there's a

: 1919

01:38:10,606 --> 01:38:17,226

difficulty adjustment and, um, and you

draw cards and like the number on your

: 1920

01:38:17,226 --> 01:38:22,661

cards, whether or not you collect Bitcoin

or not is based on, um, If, if the

: 1921

01:38:22,661 --> 01:38:26,380

numbers add up to under the difficulty

adjustment, it's a really cool mechanism.

: 1922

01:38:27,011 --> 01:38:31,171

And, uh, Scott put his cards on the

table and then went to grab some Bitcoin.

: 1923

01:38:31,171 --> 01:38:34,471

And I was like, I was like, Scott,

that, that doesn't add up to

: 1924

01:38:34,471 --> 01:38:37,701

below the, he literally tried to

grab some Bitcoin from the board.

: 1925

01:38:37,701 --> 01:38:39,241

Tried to pull one over on you.

: 1926

01:38:39,241 --> 01:38:39,821

I caught him.

: 1927

01:38:40,246 --> 01:38:41,734

I caught him, so don't trust Verify.

: 1928

01:38:41,734 --> 01:38:42,916

Don't trust Verify.

: 1929

01:38:42,986 --> 01:38:44,456

That is better than beating him.

: 1930

01:38:44,496 --> 01:38:45,596

That is so much better.

: 1931

01:38:45,606 --> 01:38:48,886

That I, that I was actually, there

was proof in the pudding that

: 1932

01:38:48,886 --> 01:38:51,766

I was paying attention, I was

completely competitive, and I was

: 1933

01:38:51,776 --> 01:38:53,266

not gonna let him get away with it.

: 1934

01:38:53,716 --> 01:38:55,876

I also, like, I just think it's

such a ringing endorsement.

: 1935

01:38:55,876 --> 01:38:58,326

I mean, people come up to you and want

to talk to you about Bitcoin and the

: 1936

01:38:58,326 --> 01:38:59,706

products they're making all the time.

: 1937

01:38:59,706 --> 01:39:01,996

So for this to be the game that

you're like, this is the best

: 1938

01:39:01,996 --> 01:39:03,376

one, I mean, you must have played.

: 1939

01:39:03,376 --> 01:39:04,496

It's the best one so far.

: 1940

01:39:04,566 --> 01:39:04,826

Oh.

: 1941

01:39:05,416 --> 01:39:08,036

It's a challenge to the audience and

to Scott to build even better ones.

: 1942

01:39:08,066 --> 01:39:08,656

Gotta build more.

: 1943

01:39:08,956 --> 01:39:10,085

You should make a shitcoin version.

: 1944

01:39:10,166 --> 01:39:11,816

That's like, this is

why everything's broken.

: 1945

01:39:11,886 --> 01:39:14,335

There, there, you, you joke about

that, but I actually had some

: 1946

01:39:14,726 --> 01:39:16,126

ideas, so you and I should talk.

: 1947

01:39:16,486 --> 01:39:18,186

I mean, I think it could, I

think it could be interesting.

: 1948

01:39:18,186 --> 01:39:21,106

Like, here's why you never want

to fuck with any of this nonsense.

: 1949

01:39:21,106 --> 01:39:22,306

FTX, the game.

: 1950

01:39:22,356 --> 01:39:25,456

No, no, I mean, like, I don't know, I

think, or like, Just everyone gets rug

: 1951

01:39:25,456 --> 01:39:26,716

pulled, there's no winning the game.

: 1952

01:39:26,846 --> 01:39:27,526

No, that's what I mean.

: 1953

01:39:27,556 --> 01:39:30,046

Or like, like a modification that

you could buy, where like, it

: 1954

01:39:30,046 --> 01:39:32,776

like, adds on to the existing game,

and then the only answer is like,

: 1955

01:39:32,816 --> 01:39:34,126

SBF steals, steals everything.

: 1956

01:39:35,646 --> 01:39:37,116

And then he goes losing a

mansion in a couple more days.

: 1957

01:39:37,425 --> 01:39:37,736

Yeah.

: 1958

01:39:39,066 --> 01:39:42,166

Um, this has been, this

has been fantastic.

: 1959

01:39:42,166 --> 01:39:44,066

I appreciate, I appreciate you all.

: 1960

01:39:44,246 --> 01:39:47,616

And, um, this has been a

really great conversation.

: 1961

01:39:48,276 --> 01:39:53,786

Uh, before, before we wrap up here,

I'd like to finish with final thoughts.

: 1962

01:39:54,826 --> 01:39:58,585

Um, final thoughts, Scott, hit us.

: 1963

01:39:58,846 --> 01:40:03,186

Uh, the thing that's on my mind is just,

is just, I go back to the, the gratitude.

: 1964

01:40:03,206 --> 01:40:05,776

I, it's really difficult

to put into words.

: 1965

01:40:06,571 --> 01:40:10,261

Like how much I think you, what you

guys are building here, like, I don't,

: 1966

01:40:10,981 --> 01:40:13,981

I really, I do, I actually struggle

with trying to, to express that.

: 1967

01:40:14,041 --> 01:40:18,451

And, um, when I tell others saying, you

know, or I told you about the Lexington

: 1968

01:40:18,451 --> 01:40:22,880

meetup and other things, I'm like,

you guys have to get to Bitcoin Park.

: 1969

01:40:22,880 --> 01:40:23,741

You have to get there.

: 1970

01:40:23,741 --> 01:40:29,931

And I'm trying to get other friends that

live in faraway places to join as well.

: 1971

01:40:30,491 --> 01:40:34,901

Um, I'm just, I just, it's, it's

really amazing and if anybody hasn't

: 1972

01:40:34,906 --> 01:40:38,261

been like, it's until you experience

it, I don't think you get it.

: 1973

01:40:38,261 --> 01:40:45,901

And for you guys, I think, um, you,

you have, you have access to a lot

: 1974

01:40:45,901 --> 01:40:50,880

of other people who already get it

when you're, when you're, you know,

: 1975

01:40:50,941 --> 01:40:54,701

in your, on your own, in the, on a,

with your family or your friends,

: 1976

01:40:54,761 --> 01:40:56,261

you're like on an, on an island.

: 1977

01:40:56,651 --> 01:41:01,001

And there's just something about

being able to be around people

: 1978

01:41:01,001 --> 01:41:02,866

who, who, um, who kind of.

: 1979

01:41:03,441 --> 01:41:04,591

Get it as well.

: 1980

01:41:04,731 --> 01:41:08,941

And so I just, I just, and my final

thought is just amazing gratitude for

: 1981

01:41:08,941 --> 01:41:10,471

what you guys are, are building here.

: 1982

01:41:11,421 --> 01:41:11,951

Thanks Scott.

: 1983

01:41:11,951 --> 01:41:15,611

This is a really special

place, really special.

: 1984

01:41:16,191 --> 01:41:17,771

There's such a wonderful vibe here.

: 1985

01:41:18,300 --> 01:41:22,041

And everybody here is

here to learn and share.

: 1986

01:41:22,681 --> 01:41:24,251

And that's really, really amazing.

: 1987

01:41:24,251 --> 01:41:29,056

I wanted to just tell your audience if

anybody's thinking about homeschooling.

: 1988

01:41:30,106 --> 01:41:30,906

Don't be afraid.

: 1989

01:41:31,386 --> 01:41:33,026

There are so many resources out there.

: 1990

01:41:33,516 --> 01:41:38,706

And if any of you have

questions, um, at freemarketkids.

: 1991

01:41:38,706 --> 01:41:41,036

com, there's a contact

us button on the bottom.

: 1992

01:41:41,126 --> 01:41:42,066

Shoot me an email.

: 1993

01:41:42,486 --> 01:41:45,916

I am so happy to answer any questions

that anybody has about homeschooling.

: 1994

01:41:46,296 --> 01:41:47,005

That's my part.

: 1995

01:41:47,386 --> 01:41:48,356

That's my specialty.

: 1996

01:41:48,925 --> 01:41:49,466

So, yeah.

: 1997

01:41:49,696 --> 01:41:50,996

Self custody or education.

: 1998

01:41:50,996 --> 01:41:51,675

Awesome.

: 1999

01:41:52,596 --> 01:41:53,496

Well, thank you both.

: 2000

01:41:53,656 --> 01:41:57,376

And I guess if, if you're a web

dev out there listening to like

: 2001

01:41:57,376 --> 01:41:59,976

hit that contact form, it sounds

like Scott could use some help.

: 2002

01:42:01,566 --> 01:42:04,186

I've proved how little technical skills.

: 2003

01:42:04,246 --> 01:42:05,726

You got Bitcoin support up there.

: 2004

01:42:06,106 --> 01:42:09,126

We explained, we explained to Scott

before the show started how to

: 2005

01:42:09,206 --> 01:42:10,736

click retweet on the live stream.

: 2006

01:42:10,736 --> 01:42:11,066

So.

: 2007

01:42:11,846 --> 01:42:13,476

Um, we're getting there.

: 2008

01:42:14,186 --> 01:42:15,416

Um, I want to thank you both.

: 2009

01:42:15,416 --> 01:42:16,516

Thank you for coming.

: 2010

01:42:16,646 --> 01:42:17,746

Thank you for joining.

: 2011

01:42:18,486 --> 01:42:19,175

Thank you, Matt.

: 2012

01:42:19,346 --> 01:42:20,416

Thank you for being you.

: 2013

01:42:20,416 --> 01:42:23,026

And it's just been a pleasure to meet

you guys and get to know you guys.

: 2014

01:42:23,026 --> 01:42:28,986

And, and I look forward to, uh, this

relationship blossoming over the Over

: 2015

01:42:28,986 --> 01:42:32,476

the future, we have to give, we have to

give P final thoughts, P final thoughts.

: 2016

01:42:32,626 --> 01:42:37,925

Oh, I just, uh, we talk a lot about

taking radical personal responsibility.

: 2017

01:42:38,276 --> 01:42:40,516

You just said huddle, you know, I

think you said huddle your education.

: 2018

01:42:40,536 --> 01:42:43,546

I think that it's really awesome

to have a conversation with

: 2019

01:42:43,556 --> 01:42:46,085

people who have taken that idea.

: 2020

01:42:46,116 --> 01:42:49,916

We talk about it a lot with regard to

finance and I love the idea of extending

: 2021

01:42:49,916 --> 01:42:51,696

that to multiple areas of your life.

: 2022

01:42:52,046 --> 01:42:54,796

And I can't think of a more

important one than how you

: 2023

01:42:54,826 --> 01:42:56,206

choose to educate your children.

: 2024

01:42:56,216 --> 01:43:02,026

So I would love to see even more people

Taking radical personal responsibility

: 2025

01:43:02,036 --> 01:43:03,996

for major aspects of their life.

: 2026

01:43:05,146 --> 01:43:05,406

Yeah.

: 2027

01:43:05,526 --> 01:43:06,126

Awesome.

: 2028

01:43:06,476 --> 01:43:08,886

Well, thank you freaks for joining us.

: 2029

01:43:09,286 --> 01:43:09,746

Thank you.

: 2030

01:43:09,766 --> 01:43:13,296

Huge shout out to the freaks who joined

us short notice in the live chat.

: 2031

01:43:13,726 --> 01:43:18,286

RDBTC, Bitcoin, uh, who else joined us?

: 2032

01:43:19,016 --> 01:43:21,085

There was few, but there was dozens of us.

: 2033

01:43:21,085 --> 01:43:21,816

It was great.

: 2034

01:43:21,966 --> 01:43:24,096

Uh, Max Trotter, Jay pleb.

: 2035

01:43:24,096 --> 01:43:25,326

Thank you guys for joining us.

: 2036

01:43:25,696 --> 01:43:28,126

Huge shout out to the freaks who

continue to support the show.

: 2037

01:43:28,886 --> 01:43:30,026

We don't have ads.

: 2038

01:43:30,776 --> 01:43:34,196

So our sponsors can't rug you by

design because you are the sponsors.

: 2039

01:43:34,246 --> 01:43:37,266

So thank you for supporting the show

with your sats, with your Bitcoin.

: 2040

01:43:37,666 --> 01:43:39,246

All the links are at sealedispatch.

: 2041

01:43:39,286 --> 01:43:41,776

com, available on all podcast apps.

: 2042

01:43:41,835 --> 01:43:44,496

Once again, this is going to be

a very big week for Dispatch.

: 2043

01:43:45,096 --> 01:43:48,726

Um, got some great conversations lined

up and also have some conversations

: 2044

01:43:48,726 --> 01:43:51,546

that will probably be on Dispatch

that I'm not expecting yet.

: 2045

01:43:51,556 --> 01:43:53,476

So I'm excited for that.

: 2046

01:43:53,856 --> 01:43:56,526

Um, if any of you are in the

Nashville area, consider coming

: 2047

01:43:56,526 --> 01:43:58,066

down to Bitcoin Park this week.

: 2048

01:43:58,596 --> 01:44:02,675

Um, or even if you're three to five hours

away, just jump in the car, drive down.

: 2049

01:44:03,216 --> 01:44:04,076

More the merrier.

: 2050

01:44:04,085 --> 01:44:04,886

We'd love to meet you.

: 2051

01:44:04,916 --> 01:44:05,835

We'd love to see you.

: 2052

01:44:06,616 --> 01:44:10,016

And, uh, yeah, appreciate you, Phreak.

: 2053

01:44:10,026 --> 01:44:11,085

Stay humble, stack sets.

: 2054

01:44:11,335 --> 01:44:11,726

Cheers.

: 2055

01:44:11,866 --> 01:44:12,416

Thanks, guys.

: 2056

01:44:12,706 --> 01:44:13,005

Thank you.