Episode 16
₿HS016: Odell Opens the Door for Bitcoin Homeschoolers
SHOW TOPIC:
Today, with Matt Odell’s permission, we’re re-publishing Citadel Dispatch 84. Matt gave us the opportunity to join him on his podcast exactly one year ago. That really opened up our minds to what was possible and, consequently, we did more than we ever thought was possible. Now we’re more inspired than ever to give back to others, e.g., more podcasts with “Bitcoin Homeschoolers” and “Orange Hatter”; more bitcoin games, more in-person events, etc.
IN THIS EPISODE, YOU'LL LEARN:
- Breaking one’s podcast virginity
- Why should we care about homeschooling? Why is it important?
- Let the child lead. Don’t hold their education back.
- Let kids move around when they study.
- Using grades can make kids feel labelled.
- Let children have freedom to make mistakes and learn. School systems teach kids to be afraid of making mistakes instead of embracing them.
- Almost all of our pain points in society go back to education.
- Instead of getting kids to an average level in every subject, let them pick an area to go deep with and excel in.
- You do not need a teaching degree to homeschool.
- Homeschooled kids are more comfortable with social interactions, not less.
- Teaching self-discipline is a critical life skill.
- Taking responsibility, how to handle difficult times, and other frameworks are things you, as a parent, choose to teach.
- Biggest hurdles for young parents that want to homeschool
- You can outsource teaching almost any subject
- Homeschooling is 365. Take care of yourself first.
- You don’t have to be perfect.
- Homeschooling is taking self-custody of your (kids’) education.
- Spending time with your kids shows them they matter to you.
- Separation of government and education
- Parents have the strongest incentive alignment possible with their children
- Homeschooling kids are taught to think for yourself versus the conformity-driven woke agendas in state schools
- Kids pick up things that not formally taught to them
- At some point you have to trust your kids to make decisions on their own when you’re not there. You have to let go.
- Don’t be afraid. There are so many resources.
RESOURCES MENTIONED IN THE SHOW:
- Matt’s website: https://werunbtc.com
- Matt’s Nostr: #npub1qny3tkh0acurzla8x3zy4nhrjz5zd8l9sy9jys09umwng00manysew95gx
- Citadel Dispatch on Zap Stream: https://zap.stream/npub1qny3tkh0acurzla8x3zy4nhrjz5zd8l9sy9jys09umwng00manysew95gx
- Bitcoin Park https://bitcoinpark.com
HAPPY TO HELP:
- Tali's Twitter @OrangeHatterPod
- Scott's Twitter @ScottLindberg93
- Scott's nostr npub19jkuyl0wgrj8kccqzh2vnseeql9v98ptrx407ca9qjsrr4x5j9tsnxx0q6
- Free Market Kids' Twitter @FreeMarketKids
- Orange Pill App @FreeMarketKids
- Free Market Kids' games including HODL UP https://www.freemarketkids.com/collections/games
WAYS TO SUPPORT:
We are essentially our own sponsors and are so grateful for all of you who support this show. Thank you!
- Subscribe, like and share this podcast with others
- Visit our “Free Market Kids“ for products like the Bitcoin mining game, HODL UP https://www.freemarketkids.com,
- Enjoy a 21% DISCOUNT on pre-sales of the 2024 Halving Collectors edition of HODL UP https://www.freemarketkids.com/products/hodl-up-2024-halving-event-commemorative-edition
- Check out Tali’s podcast by and for Bitcoin women, “Orange Hatter” https://www.orangehatter.com
- Have fun with “Proof of Work Apparel” https://www.freemarketkids.com/collections/proof-of-work-apparel
STANDING RESOURCE RECOMMENDATIONS:
- Article "Homeschoolers Are Bitcoiners Who Don't Know It Yet" https://bitcoinmagazine.com/culture/parallels-between-homeschool-and-bitcoin
- Tali’s “Quick Start” checklist https://www.freemarketkids.com/blogs/i-want-to-start-homeschooling/i-want-to-start-homeschooling-quick-start-checklist
Mentioned in this episode:
Aleia Free Market Kids Full
Transcript
one of the things that we talk a
lot about on Dispatch is Is the
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:importance of education and everything.
3
:Like if you look at all the pain
points in our society, it almost always
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:goes back to education at some level,
um, whether that is Bitcoin related
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:education or any other kind of education.
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:And our first child was born, and I
held her in my arms, and I looked at
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:her, and I thought to myself, I don't
want her to be raised by somebody else
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:You like build it up in your head, right?
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:We build up in our heads.
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:That's bullshit.
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:Obviously, that's not actually real
because 90 percent of the time I was
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:in school, I was not learning anything.
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:But the truth of the matter is like,
even if you send your kid to, to state
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:school, like it's still your fault.
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:If the kid turns out bad, like if
your child, like this idea that that
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:person doesn't have responsibility is
like this crazy thing that we've just.
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:Turned in our in our society
where it's like we have excuses.
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:That's not our fault
The teachers are crap,
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:Welcome Bitcoin homeschoolers.
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:I am so excited to share this episode.
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:And to understand why.
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:Let me give just a little context here.
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:It was exactly one year ago that
tally and I had an experience
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:that forever changed our course.
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:And it's an event.
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:That has opened doors.
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:We didn't even know
existed in the last year.
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:We've been able to do more
than we ever thought possible.
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:So what happened?
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:Well, He visited Bitcoin park
and Matt Odell invited us to.
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:Come on to Citadel dispatch
to discuss homeschooling.
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:With his permission.
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:We are replaying Citadel dispatch, 84.
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:Uh, Bitcoin homeschoolers.
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:On this one-year anniversary.
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:So Matt, thank you for being who you are.
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:Thank you for having us as your guests.
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:And thank you for letting us.
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:Replay our first podcast ever for those
who haven't heard this discussion yet.
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:You're in for a treat.
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:And the key messages have aged very well.
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:I think just one important
thing to remember.
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:Is this as a replay of the
whole show and it's a live show.
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:The introductory comments may no
longer be the best way to support.
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:Citadel dispatch.
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:Uh, especially thinking of
Twitter, stick to Nasr these days.
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:And certainly don't go
looking for the live rooms.
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:But with that note, let's jump in.
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:Enjoy.
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:Happy Bitcoin Saturday freaks.
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:It's your boy Odell here with the
first Citadel Dispatch of the new year.
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:First of all, Happy New Year to you all.
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:Uh, it's going to be a great year.
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:And uh, I look forward to living
through it with everybody.
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:Citadel Dispatch is a show
focused on actionable discussion
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:on Bitcoin and freedom tech.
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:I'm your host Odell.
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:We do not have ads or sponsors.
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:We purely rely on donations from y'all.
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:So thank you to everyone who
continues to support the show.
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:You can easily support the show
by going to still dispatch.
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:com on the bottom.
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:It says, contribute Bitcoin
Ron geyser fund now.
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:Um, so if you donate Bitcoin through
on chain or lightning, you can attach a
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:message, you can sign on with Twitter.
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:If you want your little Twitter badge
there, uh, we have a leaderboard, uh,
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:you can try and climb the ranks of
the leaderboard, which is pretty cool.
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:And also you can support the
show through podcasting 2.
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:0 apps, such as fountain
podcasts, breeze wallet.
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:podverse.
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:fm, echoln.
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:com.
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:They work like regular podcast apps,
except you load them up with Bitcoin.
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:You load them up with sats.
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:You decide how many sats per
minute you think the show is worth.
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:Um, and then as you listen, those
sats are streamed directly to my node.
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:It's extremely empowering, extremely cool.
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:To be able to open my Zeus wallet,
connect it to my own node and
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:see those stats streaming in
directly from this global audience.
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:I do appreciate y'all another
great way to support the show.
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:I know it's a bear market.
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:I know it's a recession is to simply
subscribe on your favorite platform.
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:We're on everything.
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:Rumble, Twitter, Twitch.
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:YouTube, BitcoinTV.
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:com, every podcast app.
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:Uh, subscribing does help, leaving
reviews does help, sharing with
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:friends and family does help.
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:And then last but not least, this
is a live, unedited show with
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:direct audience participation.
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:I am not the only host.
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:Y'all are the hosts as well.
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:And I appreciate everyone who
joins us in the live chat, whether
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:that's in our Matrix Rooms.
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:We have two Matrix Rooms.
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:One's encrypted, one's not encrypted.
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:There's a whole debate over that.
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:I'm not gonna get into it right now.
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:And then we also have You can
join the chat on Twitch or YouTube
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:and those those chat items.
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:I mean, if you're watching
right now, you'll see.
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:I'm, we're the only show in Bitcoin
where your chat is live broadcast on.
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:It's, anything you say
is in the broadcast.
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:So I appreciate you guys for joining us.
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:And just know that I'm not
doing any moderation there.
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:Sometimes your message from YouTube
or Twitch might not show up.
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:That's just the algo messing with you.
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:And there's nothing I can do about that.
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:I'm, I don't do any
moderation on that front.
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:So thank you everyone who
continues to join the live chat.
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:I know recently Uh, I've been springing
shows on you guys without too much notice.
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:So it means even more when you join
very little notice on a Saturday, but
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:we have this fantastic in person studio
at Bitcoin Park in Nashville, and I
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:have some great people in town, so we're
going to have this fantastic conversation
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:on a Saturday, but before we start.
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:Um, another way you can support
the show via Podcasting 2.
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:0 is something called Boostergrams.
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:Boostergrams allow you to send
a certain amount of Bitcoin.
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:You choose how much Bitcoin you want to
send and you can attach a message to it.
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:Uh, those messages are
displayed in most Podcasting 2.
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:0 apps.
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:They're also displayed on GeyserFund.
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:So that GeyserFund page you can
get to by going to satsperminute.
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:com or going to salesdispatch.
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:com and clicking.
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:Uh, donate with Bitcoin that actually
shows the leaderboard of the podcasting 2.
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:0 people too.
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:So like if you go, um, if you're just
streaming sats and you don't put any
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:messages, you're actually moving up
the leaderboard on guys are based on
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:your podcasting So like our number
two on the leaderboard right now.
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:Is at user 8 2 5 6 8 8 4 on
fountain and he has donated.
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:Yeah, that's pretty crazy.
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:He's he, he has supported the show with
846, 000 sats, almost a million sats just
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:from streaming sats or number seven on the
leaderboard is uncle thinks on fountain.
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:He's done, it looks like over 260 times.
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:He's, he's streamed sats to the
show and almost have 500, 000 sats.
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:So thank you freaks.
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:For continuing support.
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:But before we get started, let me just
read some booster grams as we always do.
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:This is a little bit different
because we did take a Christmas break.
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:So the last two shows have been,
uh, from Bitcoin Park live events.
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:Um, we have at bond with 71, 000
sats on my Bitcoin basics panel.
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:I did at the beef initiative at Bitcoin
Park saying the amount of time you
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:have dedicated through all various
mediums is incredibly appreciated.
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:Thank you for your time, all the
advice, knowledge, and positive
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:messages throughout the years.
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:Value for value.
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:Orange heart.
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:Puppy sale.
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:Appreciate you, Bond.
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:Thank you for the support.
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:We have ride or die freak Eric99 with 50,
000 sats saying thanks for all you do.
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:Smiley face.
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:Then I'm going to go
to the fireside I did.
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:With Texas Slim, also at Bitcoin
Park, we have Eric99, once
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:again, Rider Dive Freak with stay
humble stack stats, great advice.
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:We have Ape Mithrandir, another
Rider Dive Freak with uh,:
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:saying Texas Slim speaks very well.
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:And then I'm gonna go to our last actual
dispatch that we've had, which was with
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:Texas Slim, Cole Bolton, and Jason.
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:Um, And we have that user I was talking
:
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:saying I love steak with 100, 000 sats.
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:And we have our Saris BTC with
55, 555 sats saying awesome
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:rip Jason Cole and Slim.
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:I can speak to both Jason and Cole's beef.
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:They're both amazing.
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:Definitely looking forward to
seeing everyone again soon at
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:another beef initiative event.
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:Thanks Matt for your leadership here.
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:So I know this has been a long preamble.
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:It was a long holiday.
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:I haven't been with you guys for a while.
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:Uh, before we jump into the show,
I just want to say, uh, you guys
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:make it all worth it, so thank you.
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:And then second of all, we have a
crazy week here at Bitcoin Park.
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:If you are in the Nashville area,
consider going to bitcoinpark.
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:co and seeing our lineup of events.
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:We have so many great
Bitcoiners coming into town.
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:I've already lined up some
great conversations, uh, that
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:are going to be on dispatch.
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:We're gonna have Dylan LeClaire
back on Monday at 6:00 PM Central
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:Time, 7:00 PM Eastern Time.
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:So definitely consider
joining us for that.
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:I have a mini script conversation, uh,
jumping into technical Bitcoin with
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:Vivic and Rob, um, Rob of anchor watch.
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:Uh, that's gonna be on Wednesday
morning, Wednesday morning.
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:Yeah, that's going to
be on Wednesday morning.
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:I think at 11 central time.
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:Sorry that I'm not more
prepared for you freaks.
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:And then we have a bunch
more conversations.
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:Also, all the conversations that
happen at the park, well most of
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:them, without the Q& A component, get
posted to the Bitcoin Park podcast
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:feed so you can search Bitcoin Park
in your favorite podcasting app.
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:And catch a lot of that content
if you can't join, but it's
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:always better to come in person.
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:Okay.
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:I appreciate you guys for bearing
with me on this long intro.
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:We have a great conversation today,
a little bit out of my wheelhouse,
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:but something that is very important
and I'm very excited about that is
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:homeschooling and also Bitcoin games.
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:Bitcoin games can be very helpful
in an educational environment, uh,
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:to have this conversation we have.
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:Two people that have become very
good friends of mine, uh, just
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:from meeting them at Bitcoin Park.
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:They drove in, um, they drove into
Bitcoin Park looking to see what
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:the Bitcoin community over here was
all about and, uh, we really just
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:hit it off a couple months ago.
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:Um, we have Scott here.
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:How's it going, Scott?
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:It's going fantastic.
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:Thank you, Scott.
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:And Scott's here with
his wonderful wife, Tali.
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:How's it going, Tali?
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:Really good.
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:Happy to be here.
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:Love it.
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:Love it.
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:I think this might be their first podcast.
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:Is this your first podcast ever?
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:Yes, it is.
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:Yes, it is.
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:Love it.
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:And here to break their podcast virginity
with me is ride or die freak, P.
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:How's it going, P?
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:It is going fantastically.
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:I'm honored to be here, my friend.
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:Thanks for inviting me.
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:P was sitting in Bitcoin Park, uh, When
we decided that we were going to do
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:this dispatch and I roped him into it.
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:So very excited to have P here.
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:Hell yeah.
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:Okay, so we are talking
about homeschooling.
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:We are talking about Bitcoin games.
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:Before we get started, I just
wanted to say to the freaks, I
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:played a lot of Bitcoin games.
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:This game that, that Scott
designed is, is simply the best
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:Bitcoin game I've ever played.
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:But we're not going to start with that.
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:What we're going to start
with is homeschooling.
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:And why are we going to?
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:Why are we going to talk about
homeschooling with this group?
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:We're going to talk about homeschooling
with this group because Tali and
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:Scott have four children and they
homeschooled all four children.
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:So I think that brings, makes you
as close to a homeschooling expert
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:as you can possibly be, Tali.
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:Um, homeschooling.
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:Why should we care?
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:Why do you do it?
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:Why is it important?
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:Well, hello everybody.
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:I'm so happy to be here.
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:Um, homeschooling For us, when
we first started, it was almost
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:an accidental, um, event.
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:We weren't planning to do that.
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:We were originally going to go
traditional and, you know, send
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:the kids to private school, go the
Ivy League route, all that stuff.
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:But as the kids got older, we
realized that if we went the
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:Structured academic route.
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:There were a lot of restrictions
on what the kids can and cannot do.
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:It was very almost conveyor belt
like, you know, the kids are moved
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:from one stage to another stage and
with very little variation allowed
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:in what they're supposed to be doing.
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:So an example would be when my, my
oldest was three and I was thinking
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:about putting her in preschool.
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:I toured the local preschools.
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:Like every single one of them and I
interviewed the principals and the
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:teachers and I just specifically remember
this one school that I stopped at.
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:The principal was English, her, you know,
she sounded really intelligent and we were
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:walking down the hall and she was pointing
at all the different artwork and, and, uh,
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:ABCs and words that they were learning.
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:And I asked her this one question, I
said, do you teach your kids to read?
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:These are three, four, five year olds.
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:And I will never forget her answer to me.
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:She said, Oh, no, no,
no, we don't do that.
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:And I asked her why.
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:And she said, well, we don't want
them to be bored in kindergarten.
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:What?
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:And I said, so if a child is ready
and willing, you would purposefully
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:not teach that child to read.
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:And she said, yes, because we
don't want them to be bored.
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:And that just blew my mind.
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:It absolutely blew my mind.
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:My oldest was three.
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:I had already been teaching her ABCs and.
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:So I, I didn't send her to that preschool.
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:I did end up taking her, my oldest to
a different preschool and while the
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:other kids were learning how to spell
cat with the, you know, it's the C A T
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:and their B is for boy and D is for dog.
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:That kind of thing.
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:She was already reading chapter
books because I taught her as
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:she was ready to move forward.
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:Not because I said, okay, wait,
you're four and you should be
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:able to only do this amount.
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:And so I'm going to stop there.
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:You let the child lead, and that's,
that's been the best experience that we've
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:been able to enjoy is let the child lead
when they're ready to go forward, you
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:move them forward, but if they have some
trouble, if they're not language inclined,
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:they're more mathematically challenged,
then you just say, okay, if the addition
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:doesn't make sense to you right now,
you Explain it to them a different way
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:or you use a different method or you,
for example, for our boys, they're
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:very active when they do school work.
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:It's really helpful to allow
them to move, which is not
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:possible in the school system.
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:So, for example, are our second oldest.
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:He memorized the multiplication
table while he was jumping on our
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:sofa and it just worked for him.
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:But that's just, he's literally just
jumping up and down on the sofa.
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:He was jumping on the table.
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:Yes, that was how he recited
and that was fine with me.
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:I don't care how he learns it,
just learn it, you know, and if he
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:doesn't get it, then we do it again.
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:I see P's mind running.
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:He's like, damn, I think I
can learn things that way.
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:Yeah, exactly.
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:What's going through my mind?
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:He did.
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:Whatever it was, as long
as he was doing his thing.
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:Hold it closer to your mouth.
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:Sorry.
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:Yeah.
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:And also, also you don't, we, we don't
agree in grading, especially when
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:the kids are learning a new skill.
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:We want to give them feedback by
saying, okay, that didn't work.
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:Let's try it again.
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:But if you give them a grade, which I
think a lot of schools are really quick
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:to do, they label themselves immediately.
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:So if you say, okay, you haven't
memorized the multiplication table,
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:I give you your test, you get an 83.
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:Right.
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:That's a passable grade.
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:You move on the parts
that they didn't get.
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:That could be really key for the
next phase of their education,
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:but they just, they get moved on.
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:But in the homeschooling environment,
you get to say, okay, you didn't get
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:17 percent of what you were tested.
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:Let's go back and revisit the 17%.
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:And there's no labeling.
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:There's no, you're a B student.
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:You're a C student.
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:It doesn't matter.
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:Let's get it all completely
mastered a hundred percent.
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:And then you move on and.
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:I feel like that gives the children
freedom to make mistakes, and it's through
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:the mistakes that we learn the fastest.
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:But I think our school systems teach the
kids to be afraid of mistakes because
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:they have the report card that they
have to bring home to their parents, you
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:know, and they're labeled immediately.
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:I'm good at math.
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:I'm not good at math.
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:I'm good at English.
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:I'm not good.
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:You don't need to do that, really.
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:I don't believe that.
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:Right.
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:I mean, one of the things that we
talk a lot about on Dispatch is Is the
356
:importance of education and everything.
357
:Like if you look at all the pain
points in our society, it almost always
358
:goes back to education at some level,
um, whether that is Bitcoin related
359
:education or any other kind of education.
360
:With the beef initiative, we
talk about lack of, uh, food
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:intelligence, lack of this idea
of where does your food come from?
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:What is good quality food?
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:Like, how do you, how are you nutritious?
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:And you go right back.
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:It's education, education, education.
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:Um, but meanwhile.
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:Like the core of our society's education
system is this, is this government
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:school system, right, which is basically
geared to the lowest common denominator.
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:It's not really geared
to individual students.
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:You said this term child led learning.
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:Mm hmm.
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:Um, and I feel like that is really,
that captures, that, that captures
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:the value prop, this idea that Mm hmm.
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:It is actual education that's
geared to these individual, your
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:individual children, not just
this concept of children, right?
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:Like this, like everybody has to be at
least average in all kinds of subjects.
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:And one of the books that I read really
early on when the kids were little
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:was a book by Jennifer Fox and it's
called finding your child's strength.
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:And she talked about how going
forward when we compete against.
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:The world, the whole entire world,
when you're talking about job, you
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:know, job seeker and, you know,
corporations and whatever, you,
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:you think about competing against
every country under the sun, right?
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:Who has access to the internet
and you can't be average.
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:You have to be superb.
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:In an area, and in order for you to do
that, you have to be allowed to pour
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:your time and effort into that one area.
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:So for example, right now, I think,
generally speaking, people believe
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:that kids have to achieve a certain
level of math accomplishment, right?
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:Whether it's algebra or
pre algebra, whatever.
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:But is that absolutely necessary?
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:Because it's not.
392
:How many life skills actually
require the knowledge of algebra
393
:and how many job skills actually
require the knowledge of algebra.
394
:And yet we spent so much time making sure
that every single child has that level.
395
:But if they use that same amount of
time in an area that child is already
396
:strong at and naturally inclined to excel
at, then how much further can they go
397
:with that same amount of time invested?
398
:So that's a, that's a really
great book, I think, for your
399
:listeners to maybe check out.
400
:Um, but that was really impactful
for me to not try to get my kids
401
:up to like some average level for
every single subject, but to really
402
:pick an area and excel in it.
403
:So, I mean, you've never done this before.
404
:This is the first time you've
homeschooled children, presumably.
405
:What was your, what was
your background before you?
406
:My background, uh, I actually met my
husband at business school, and the,
407
:our plan always was I was going to go
into investment banking, and our plan
408
:was always have a child, you know, stay
at home for a few months, get a nanny,
409
:and then I was going to go back to work.
410
:And our first child was born, and I held
her in my arms, and I looked at her, and
411
:I thought to myself, I don't want her
to be raised by somebody else because
412
:if I went back to investment banking,
I was going to leave the house before
413
:she woke up and I was going to come home
after she went to bed and I was never
414
:going to see her and she was not going
to know who I am and I won't know her.
415
:So we talked about it and decided that.
416
:He was gonna just be a single single
income earner and uh, and I was gonna
417
:stay home with the kids Well at the
time one kid, but yeah And then we like
418
:I said before we fell into this whole
homeschooling thing because I didn't know
419
:it was an option and then when I knew it
was an option, I thought you had to have
420
:a teacher's degree, but Since we started
into it, I realized that there are so many
421
:options under the sun, so many different
combinations of ways to homeschool your
422
:child, and you can always outsource
a subject that you're not good at.
423
:There's so many resources out
there, there's so much support,
424
:and there's a huge community, and
the number one com Not complain.
425
:Number one concern that our families
have when we decide to homeschool was
426
:your child is going to be a hermit,
you know, he she will not be able to to
427
:have hold a conversation with anybody.
428
:And that is the farthest
thing from the truth.
429
:If you ever meet a homeschool
child, they can talk to anybody
430
:because they're a hermit.
431
:In the world with their parents, they are
interacting with people of all ages, of
432
:all capacity, all roles, all the time.
433
:They're not stuck in a classroom
in a teacher student peer
434
:situation most of the day.
435
:They are out there interacting.
436
:And so they actually are
much more comfortable.
437
:Interacting with people socially
than I would say a typical student.
438
:I mean, you brought your kids to
Bitcoin Park the other day and
439
:they were building seed signers.
440
:Yep.
441
:Building their own hardware wall.
442
:That's interesting.
443
:One thing that you mentioned was, um, the
idea of allowing your children to focus
444
:in on the areas that they are specifically
excited about or interested in.
445
:How do you find the balance between, um,
encouraging them to also You know, learn
446
:things that don't come as naturally to
them or that they get bored of easily.
447
:And I'm asking as a person who
experienced this a lot as a child.
448
:Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure.
449
:So.
450
:So I do, I encourage them to pursue
what they're interested in because we
451
:have the time to do it because they
are not spending The time commuting on
452
:the school bus going to school and you
know going from class to class So they
453
:do have more time to do that but at the
same time I'm Chinese and so the whole
454
:tiger mom thing comes into play just
a little bit and Discipline was a huge
455
:huge thing that I talked about with
the kids and I remember specifically
456
:Brianna would be very unwilling.
457
:She, this is not a competitive person,
but we put them in sports for, you know,
458
:physical fitness, things like that.
459
:And when she would be
hesitant because she.
460
:wasn't sure she was going to win or
something required her to practice
461
:longer, like piano or something
longer than she thought she should.
462
:Then the discipline comes into play.
463
:And I would tell her it's easy for
you to do things that are easy to you.
464
:It's hardest for you to do something.
465
:That you don't want to do, do, you
don't want to do, but you should
466
:do, and you find challenging.
467
:And I did give them a
lot of lectures on that.
468
:So really focusing in on the value of
discipline, using those as opportunities
469
:to hone that skill set specifically.
470
:Yes, for the purpose of discipline,
not for the purpose of, I think
471
:you should be a master musician
because you're just supposed to,
472
:nothing, not, not for that reason.
473
:Yeah, absolutely.
474
:But I think that that
sense of discipline is.
475
:Often lacking in students today because
there's so many people who just say,
476
:I'm not good at math and therefore they
just kind of toss it out the window
477
:and that I'm just not good at that.
478
:I mean, the other thing we talked about
a lot on dispatch is, uh, this idea
479
:of personal responsibility and this
idea that society has kind of groomed
480
:personal responsibility out of us.
481
:And I mean, you see that in the
government school system, right?
482
:It's like the teachers aren't
responsible for the kids because the
483
:parents are helicoptering parenting,
but then the parents aren't.
484
:responsible for the kids because
they're in school with the teacher.
485
:So it's like, who is actually
responsible for the kid's education?
486
:Is it the person setting, you know, the
standard bodies over in Washington, um,
487
:on what their test scores should be?
488
:And all of a sudden you end up
in a situation where nobody's
489
:responsible for the child, right?
490
:The child is responsible for themselves.
491
:Um, and it's just a
completely broken incentives.
492
:Yeah, I think it'd be really tough for
a teacher to have 30 students there.
493
:I mean, I empathize with that.
494
:That would be really hard.
495
:I just can't imagine that they
would have the time to say,
496
:You know, this just happened.
497
:Let's take a moment and
talk about responsibility.
498
:Whereas your homeschooling, if you ask
our kids, everything was a lecture.
499
:Right?
500
:It was.
501
:You get to take the garbage cans out.
502
:Why did you not do that?
503
:You know, and it could be a ten minute
discussion on doing the right thing.
504
:Even if it was cold
outside or whatever it is.
505
:And so you, you're shaping their framework
on how they view things and you just.
506
:They're going to pick that up from
somewhere, so it's probably going
507
:to be their peers or whatever social
media or whatever it is that they get,
508
:they're, they're paying attention to,
but when you're homeschooling, you have
509
:the opportunity to say, let me give
you a viewpoint on how you approach
510
:difficulty, responsibility, fill in the
blank with whatever you, you want, you
511
:get, you're the one that gets to shape.
512
:The framework that they're going
to use for other decisions and
513
:when you're not there to help them.
514
:Do you think that's the biggest hurdle
for maybe young parents that want
515
:to do homeschooling is, is, is that?
516
:All the discipline
responsibilities on them.
517
:It's like, that's something you
can't like learn in a book, right?
518
:That's like, uh, you have to
actually be willing to do it.
519
:Yeah, I think it's fear.
520
:And I think there's an unrealistic
expectation that you have to
521
:be the expert on every subject.
522
:Right.
523
:Like, oh, I couldn't teach
biology or whatever it was.
524
:And Tali's right, you can outsource.
525
:Almost any subject.
526
:So how does that look, the outsource?
527
:Right.
528
:Kids gonna learn biology.
529
:You're not a biologist.
530
:Right, so I think most cities
would have homeschooler co ops.
531
:And also, a lot of private
schools would offer cottage
532
:school programs for homeschoolers.
533
:So it's almost like part time.
534
:Private school.
535
:So, for example, in Louisville, there
is a place where I think a lot of, um,
536
:homeschoolers with high school kids
would send their kids to, and they go
537
:to school two days a week, and they
do their homework at home three days a
538
:week, and the parents don't teach at all.
539
:They monitor.
540
:Right.
541
:So that's, that's an option.
542
:And then you can also do
So that's not what you do.
543
:I didn't, I did some of that.
544
:Okay.
545
:For example, I wanted the kids to
learn Latin, and I was not about to go
546
:teach them Latin, because I, I don't.
547
:No, Latin.
548
:I also try to teach them science
in the very beginning, but the
549
:setup and prepping for the science
experiments took so much time.
550
:I just couldn't do it.
551
:So I outsourced those.
552
:Musical theater, I think is super,
super important for literally everybody
553
:because it teaches them how to Get
over stage fright, present themselves,
554
:uh, speak well in front of people.
555
:So I think that's really important,
but you can't do that at home.
556
:So I send them to a co op to do musical
theater, drama, that type of stuff.
557
:So yeah, just combination.
558
:There's so many resources out there.
559
:Is there's no reason for anybody
to be afraid of it unless they
560
:just haven't been directed where
to go and look for solutions.
561
:Interesting.
562
:Do you feel like, do you feel like the
experience of being an educator or really
563
:adopting the role as educator rather
than only as parent has changed the
564
:way That you view your own education.
565
:Oh, absolutely.
566
:I think we grew more than the kids did.
567
:I don't, I had no idea of
going into it what to expect.
568
:But it, yeah, it's just,
you have to go through it.
569
:You have to experience it.
570
:It's hard to.
571
:If I told you how to do a podcast
versus you actually having to set it
572
:up and having to do it, um, there's
something in the actual action
573
:and being responsible for that.
574
:But I have no formal podcast education.
575
:No, just trial by fire.
576
:And that's true for parenting.
577
:Really.
578
:It really is.
579
:And homeschooling, I think
is exactly the same thing.
580
:And I think I had more fun than
my kids when I was homeschooling
581
:because I was learning so much.
582
:I learned more trying to, Learn
enough to teach them than I did going
583
:through all the branding schools
and I would take a book and instead
584
:of handing it over to them, I would
read and be like, this is so cool.
585
:I love this book.
586
:You know, I will order books and they will
come in, you know, in the, in the boxes
587
:and I'll open like, I love these books.
588
:And I would just hug them.
589
:I get so excited, I get so excited.
590
:That's fantastic.
591
:What's been the hardest thing for you to.
592
:Do as part of this process, what's
been the most challenging aspect
593
:of homeschooling your children?
594
:I think it doesn't have to
do with homeschooling per se.
595
:To me, the biggest challenge was I had
switched jobs a couple times and Tali
596
:took, she spent hours and hours and
hours trying to find the right activities
597
:and the right resources in an area.
598
:And when you disrupt that, um, If,
you know, if I could go back, I think
599
:that might be one thing that I would
try to change because it, it disrupted
600
:all those things and you have to kind
of like reset and restart and restart
601
:the actual, the actual teaching part.
602
:It's not, I mean, kids are
really resilient, right?
603
:If you, if you messed up and you
didn't teach whatever you thought
604
:you were going to teach them, like
they're just really resilient and
605
:you can catch up on almost anything.
606
:Plus homeschools 365, it's not
like you have this, Oh, the
607
:summer they're, they're off.
608
:Our kids didn't understand
what a vacation was.
609
:Because Tali just kept on going and
if we were taking time off because
610
:we wanted to go do a trip, we did it.
611
:We had that flexibility.
612
:But it wasn't like the
same time every year.
613
:No.
614
:And it was, you know, it
could be the middle of summer.
615
:They didn't understand that, wait,
other people are not in school.
616
:So you're, you, there's no, when I
grew up, that was like the best feeling
617
:ever, that, the day before summer break.
618
:Yeah, my poor kids never knew that.
619
:You know, you all run out, you all run out
of school together, just like screaming.
620
:School's out, school's out.
621
:Um, I, going back to your question, Pete,
about the challenges, I think, I think
622
:the, the biggest challenge was feeling
100 percent responsible for your child
623
:and how they, Hopefully children and
how they turn out because I have nobody
624
:to blame except myself because I'm it.
625
:I am the parent.
626
:I'm the teacher.
627
:I'm the principal.
628
:I'm the counselor.
629
:I am everything and there were so
many times when I wanted to quit.
630
:There were so many times when I just
I was talking to Scott Lee and I'll
631
:be like, I, I can't do it anymore.
632
:I have, I have to send them to
school because I'm going to go crazy.
633
:But it was more.
634
:It was not because the
kids were difficult.
635
:It was.
636
:All the pressure on myself that I had
to make sure they were emotionally
637
:healthy and they were physically healthy.
638
:So I'm trying to cook the dinner
while they are doing their homework.
639
:I never got a break.
640
:There was no break for me because
it was when they were investing.
641
:I was prepping for class
when they were doing class.
642
:I was cooking when I was driving.
643
:I was memorizing poems with
them when I was driving.
644
:I was playing.
645
:It was like there was no break.
646
:So that was the biggest challenge.
647
:And for anybody who's thinking about
homeschooling out there, I would just
648
:say, take care of yourself first.
649
:That's number one.
650
:And in what way?
651
:As in.
652
:Yes, you are responsible a hundred
percent, but you can outsource and,
653
:and you don't need to be perfect.
654
:I think that's the biggest
message I want to tell people.
655
:You don't have to be perfect and
your kids will turn out great.
656
:So don't, don't be too hard on
yourself is my impression is some
657
:people think homeschoolers They just
let their kids do nothing all day.
658
:They're just sitting around.
659
:My impression is the opposite.
660
:They're really intense.
661
:The kind of the tiger mom type of
thing that Tali's talking about.
662
:And you put these expectations on yourself
that are so hard that you're just like,
663
:well, I can fit one more activity in.
664
:I can do one more thing.
665
:And it's the self pressure
that you're right.
666
:They're competing with these
kids in school that are just
667
:constantly learning all the time.
668
:You like build it up in your head, right?
669
:We build up in our heads.
670
:That's bullshit.
671
:Obviously, that's not actually real
because 90 percent of the time I was
672
:in school, I was not learning anything.
673
:Right.
674
:It was just like, absolutely.
675
:Yeah.
676
:I think when we first started, um,
some of the season homeschooling
677
:mamas were saying, don't think
you're not doing enough because
678
:you're already doing more than what.
679
:Other kids are getting in school because
there's so much travel time, transition
680
:time, uh, you know, going from class to
class, and then setting up, taking down,
681
:all that stuff, and we, because we don't
have to do that, we were already ahead
682
:by several hours per day, and then the
individual attention we give to the kids
683
:far surpasses how many hours they sit
in the classroom in a corner at a desk.
684
:Yeah, it's almost, I think it's almost
ironic, you know, the self pressure about.
685
:The responsibility of what you
have and to me, and I can say this
686
:because it's a Bitcoin audience.
687
:It's like yourself.
688
:You're taking self custody of
your education and you're, yeah,
689
:there's so much overlap there.
690
:You're, you're being responsible.
691
:You're, you're responsible for it.
692
:And um, I don't know, I have some
other things on that depending
693
:where you want to go with it.
694
:Well, that's like what Tali was saying
where she's like, one of the biggest
695
:hurdles is that you feel this immense
personal responsibility over everything.
696
:Because there's no one else to blame.
697
:But the truth of the matter is like,
even if you send your kid to, to state
698
:school, like it's still your fault.
699
:If the kid turns out bad, like if
your child, like this idea that that
700
:person doesn't have responsibility is
like this crazy thing that we've just.
701
:Turned in our in our society
where it's like we have excuses.
702
:That's not our fault The teachers are
crap, you know, this is bad all these
703
:reasons why the kid turned out bad not
that you know You were not a responsible
704
:parent in the first place Yeah, right And
I think really all kids want to know is
705
:that they matter to you and it's how do
you demonstrate that they matter to you?
706
:You spend time with them and that's
one of the things that that I've
707
:just recently started to really
think about is this whole quality
708
:versus quantity of time discussion.
709
:I think there's been this really
huge push for people to believe
710
:that they can have it all.
711
:They can have the career and the
family and be parents and everything.
712
:The most important part is the quality
time, you know, you, you take them out on
713
:a trip and you spend quality time or you
take them bowling and it's quality time
714
:and I'm not saying any of that is bad.
715
:It's all very important, but there are
quantity of time that just needs to be
716
:there so that you can notice the little
things because live The little things
717
:like if your child has a nosebleed and
you're there and you're holding the
718
:tissue of the nose and go, this is how
you apply pressure, like little things
719
:like that, they add up and then they
trust you and they tell you stuff.
720
:And the discussions that we have.
721
:Over the kitchen counter, I
think, have been so key, a part
722
:of the homeschooling education.
723
:It's not just about the economics at all,
because in the end, how well you read or
724
:how well you can write essays, it just
doesn't matter as much as do they believe
725
:they matter, number one, to their parents,
and also how do they interpret the world
726
:around them, right, in a healthy way.
727
:And I think a lot of young
people are really missing that.
728
:They have been.
729
:Their parents at least buy into the
quality time thing so they take the the
730
:family trips and they take the family
photos and it's everything looks really
731
:pretty but inside they don't have the
the little moments that added up give
732
:some guidance and so then they rely on
their peers but it's kind of like Young
733
:people leading young people sometimes
can feel like the blind leading the
734
:blind, because nobody knows more.
735
:Nobody knows more.
736
:And then they go on social
media, which is even scarier.
737
:But your parents love you and they have
wisdom, you know, of several decades
738
:over your current life experience.
739
:And if they're not able to share that
with the kids, I think it's so easy
740
:for the kids to be swayed by what's
going on in society that in most
741
:of it is not very helpful to them.
742
:Yeah.
743
:If I could.
744
:Maybe use that to highlight the
negative side that you try to avoid too.
745
:So we've been talking, and
I love it, focusing on the
746
:positives of homeschooling.
747
:Let's dive in.
748
:There's a negative that you avoid too.
749
:So there, in my view, it's like the,
you know, you talk about separation
750
:of, of government and money.
751
:It's, in this case, it's separation
of the government and school.
752
:Right.
753
:Education.
754
:And it's like indoctrination, right?
755
:So, so not only are they not
teaching about how money is, And
756
:we, like, we bought games to teach
money when the kids were young
757
:and that's not surprising, right?
758
:Um, so it's, you're, you're lacking that,
but they're also picking up other things.
759
:There could be an agenda
from the, the teacher.
760
:There can be an agenda that comes
down as part of the, the curricula.
761
:There could be, there's a lot of things
that you can avoid that when you, when
762
:you don't homeschool, you're, you're
basically saying, I trust somebody else.
763
:I'm going to trust that they're
going to guide my kids correctly.
764
:I'm going to trust that
they're going to teach them.
765
:The right way of looking at
history, the right way of looking
766
:at fill in the blank type of thing.
767
:And so it's the flip side of you get to
do all the positive things, you also get
768
:to avoid some of the things where you're
relying on trust on someone else to do it.
769
:Yeah, I mean a key aspect of, of
government schooling is, is to get
770
:children To respect, you know, uh,
respect authority and be a be a
771
:quote unquote functioning member of
society that doesn't ask questions.
772
:That's just willing to go
along with what's best for the
773
:country, so to speak, right?
774
:It's like a social score, right?
775
:Yeah, that's like that.
776
:That is one of the reasons why you see
these these state school systems got
777
:built out in the first place, right?
778
:Was like, how do we take These
millions of people, um, and
779
:have them all work together for
the best for the state, right?
780
:Turn them into a
productive economic asset.
781
:Yeah, because we talk about, we talk
about incentives all the time, right?
782
:And Bitcoin and, and it's the
same, same situation here is, is
783
:what are, what are the incentives?
784
:Are the incentives flawed?
785
:Are they broken?
786
:Uh, or do they make sense, right?
787
:And if you, if you talk about parents
with their children, I mean, they have the
788
:strongest incentive alignment possible.
789
:Like you want your kids to be the
best they can possibly be, um, and
790
:ultimately it goes all the way to
the point of you're going to be old
791
:at some point and then they're going
to be taking care of you, right?
792
:So you have massive skin in the game.
793
:While if you look at school systems,
what are their incentives, right?
794
:Their incentives are no
one acts out of line.
795
:You want everyone to be, you know,
quote unquote, functionally members of
796
:society that don't cause disruptions
that are just productive economic units.
797
:Yeah.
798
:Incentives.
799
:I agree.
800
:Yeah.
801
:Yeah.
802
:I mean, in the traditional school
system, the goal is to basically
803
:keep people occupied because you get
paid for every day that the student
804
:is in the school rather than Yeah.
805
:That's the incentive.
806
:Yeah.
807
:So, so I have.
808
:A follow up question to that, because I
was actually going to go in that route,
809
:uh, before you brought it up, Scott.
810
:And so the follow up question is, as
Bitcoiners, obviously, I think, in
811
:general, we self select for people
that are contrarian, that go against
812
:authority, that think outside the box.
813
:We value that as a very positive trait.
814
:Um, now, if most children aren't that,
And I actually saw it when I was raised
815
:like up until, uh, I mean, 2008 was a big,
you know, curtain draw for me that A lot
816
:of what we were taught was bullshit and,
you know, there aren't really adults in
817
:the room that know what they're talking
about and, and that, you know, society
818
:is like this massive house of cards that
we all pretend is not a house of cards.
819
:But up until that point,
I was very indoctrinated.
820
:You know, I was very rah rah America.
821
:Um, I told my mom at one
point I want to join the army.
822
:She told me essentially to go fuck myself.
823
:Um, did you know I was
in the army by the way?
824
:I did not know that.
825
:Um, so anyway, my question was, so
I kind of came to it myself after
826
:most of my government schooling, but
my question is a child that Isn't
827
:subservient in that way, right?
828
:Isn't indoctrinated.
829
:Are there, have you no,
obviously we know the positive
830
:points that can come from that.
831
:I, I, I wonder, do you notice like
negative points where someone of that
832
:age is like thinking for themselves
maybe a little bit too much?
833
:Like, I don't know, like, is that,
do you, does that make sense?
834
:Do you want to, do you want to go first?
835
:Yeah.
836
:Why don't you go first?
837
:I can only speak to my own four kids
and I'm actually really happy that.
838
:They think outside the box.
839
:They do because when they graduated high
school, I sent them overseas I wanted
840
:them to get out of the homeschooling
community the Christian community and I
841
:told them the world is very big and this
is a very tiny part of it and you need to
842
:go see and They each came back and said
we don't like what we saw because it's
843
:really sad, you know I think Brianna was
sent to London during COVID and she, you
844
:know, in the UK, the drinking age is 18.
845
:Right.
846
:Right.
847
:And so these are pre freshman
kids, they're mostly 18,
848
:they're so excited, right?
849
:They get to the airport,
they get to the hotel.
850
:I mean, they're When you say they,
was she part of a larger group?
851
:She was part of an educational group.
852
:She got there and everybody split.
853
:Everybody went to the pub.
854
:Right.
855
:To get drunk.
856
:And she called us and I said,
What are you doing calling us?
857
:This is your first night there.
858
:Aren't you supposed to be hanging
out with your new friends?
859
:And she goes, Everybody's gone.
860
:What?
861
:So then it was a whole semester of
people throwing up in the hallway,
862
:people throwing up at the top, you
know, and she She stood her ground.
863
:She was like, I don't I
don't need to do that.
864
:I can go on have a good time
and I don't need to do that.
865
:So she thought outside the box and I
was really proud of her for doing that.
866
:And Alea went to Hawaii and her group,
they didn't have access to pubs and
867
:bars because she was in a work study
program, but there were a lot of
868
:kids who showed up to the program
and go, thank God we left our family.
869
:It's just, Oh, I can't stand them.
870
:And I'm so happy I'm away.
871
:And then I was like,
why would you say that?
872
:I tell my mom everything.
873
:And they're like, why would
you tell your mom everything?
874
:And she goes, because we've always
just told each other everything.
875
:And so she, they just
thought so, so differently.
876
:There was such a separation
of the kids from their family.
877
:And I'm, I'm guessing it's because
They, they've been separated.
878
:So the kids they went on the trips
with weren't all homeschooled kids?
879
:None of them were.
880
:Oh, okay.
881
:Just, just my kids.
882
:That was kind of their first exposure
without us there to, to, to guide them.
883
:Talia wanted to get them exposure out
and she said, let's go see the world,
884
:we'll come, we'll find a program.
885
:And we were expecting them to go
and, wow, I got to see all these.
886
:Great places and meet new people
and they kind of came back with
887
:what Tali was just describing was,
wow, these people, they're animals.
888
:Well, it wasn't that they were
animals, it's just that they just
889
:didn't There was such a separation
between them and the and their family.
890
:Yeah.
891
:Because they've been, they, they go to
school and they're just separate, right?
892
:Um, and, and another thing I wanted
to say is there's that, is it
893
:okay if I talk about woke stuff?
894
:Yeah.
895
:Oh, okay.
896
:Openly.
897
:You can talk about whatever you want.
898
:So, my grandmother asked me
once how I didn't get kicked off
899
:the radio for cursing so much.
900
:Oh, okay.
901
:This is the, the great
beyond of podcasting.
902
:We can talk about whatever
you want on the hinterland.
903
:Because that's, that's, that's one of
the things that That, um, that really
904
:just blew my mind was this huge,
huge push for the, the woke agenda,
905
:even in these overseas programs.
906
:And I just remember Brianna landing
in London and the first class she
907
:was in, her professor called her out
and said, what do you think about
908
:transitioning, gender transition?
909
:Well, first class and compare that
to a child growing into an adult.
910
:And Brianna said, well, one is a natural
process and one is an unnatural process.
911
:And that was all she said.
912
:And later on that program, she was
called out on that by another student
913
:who was a gender fluid person.
914
:Right.
915
:And literally the entire program
was set down and the one person
916
:in the middle telling everybody
how they had microaggression.
917
:What is the verb for that?
918
:Microaggressed.
919
:I don't even know what it is.
920
:She was offended by everything.
921
:Right.
922
:Microaggression.
923
:She was personally attacked by everything.
924
:And so Brianna just felt like I
can't even discuss it intelligently.
925
:I can't just, I can't talk
freely about how I feel.
926
:That's interesting.
927
:It was, she completely shut down
because she said, What is the point?
928
:Nobody's going to listen to me.
929
:Because there is only one right answer.
930
:And it was the same thing for
my other kids in other programs.
931
:It was this huge push, like gender
is fluid, it doesn't, the biological
932
:fact is not, is not a fact, and
it was a work study program.
933
:Right, it's conformity
over open discussion.
934
:Yes.
935
:Yes.
936
:So like when, when you and
Slim were doing your talk.
937
:And somebody was pushing back
saying, where's the proof?
938
:Where's the proof, right?
939
:It's a very, my impression.
940
:I mean, I'm only a couple of
years trying to learn this stuff,
941
:but my impression is it's, it's
show me, like, I don't trust you.
942
:Show me, verify, and no
one was offended by it.
943
:It wasn't like you stood up and said,
we're not going to do that here.
944
:And it was there.
945
:And what Tolly's describing is.
946
:So when you're, when you're
homeschooling, you're, you're asking
947
:the kids to think, what is your opinion?
948
:I want you to do this.
949
:You're going to, you actually have to.
950
:So in their minds, that's
just the way that things are.
951
:You think for yourself.
952
:And you asked me a question,
I tell you, our, our daughter
953
:goes out and she gets shut down.
954
:And now the program is saying.
955
:You can't talk, right?
956
:It's, it's like the opposite of,
uh, or if you, if you oppose what
957
:we tell you, then you are a bigot.
958
:That's not even opposition.
959
:It's if you ask the question, you're
labeled if you have a yes, if or
960
:if you say dare you, you believe.
961
:So, I was actually very proud that,
that our kids thought outside the
962
:system and thought outside the
box and stood their ground, but
963
:they paid a price for it, right?
964
:So.
965
:That's interesting.
966
:Do you feel like, one of the things
that I experienced, I went through
967
:the traditional education system, and
I, I actually had a, a very similar
968
:relationship with my parents, or I have
a very similar relationship and growing
969
:up to the one that it sounds like
you have with your children, where it
970
:was, even though I spent a lot of time
in the traditional education system,
971
:that kind of thinking and the, the
discipline involved was something that my
972
:parents really heavily instilled in me.
973
:And I feel like one of the things that
I benefited from kind of, uh, perversely
974
:or maybe, um, despite it was that it kind
of hardened me to being in situations
975
:with support from my parents where I was
surrounded by people who were very shut
976
:down and were sort of forced to conform.
977
:And I had the support from my parents
to like, you, you have to, it's on you
978
:to kind of, to think outside the box and
to really kind of confront people with
979
:that in a way where they can understand
how you're trying to communicate.
980
:Anyway, this is a long winded way
of asking, do you feel like Your,
981
:those experiences were ultimately
positive for your children.
982
:Do you feel like they came through
those sort of having that experience
983
:and having a better sense of how
they can navigate those situations?
984
:The same way that maybe I did,
I think we're still in it.
985
:I think she's in that in the
example where we're walking through,
986
:she's still dealing with that.
987
:And I mean, she's moving on.
988
:She's, she's doing other, other
things, but I mean, that's her,
989
:her first experience away from it.
990
:It really shook her.
991
:She, she really was, was shaken by that.
992
:So I don't think you, you stop learning.
993
:In the same way, if you're an adult
and you have a bad relationship or
994
:something else happens, it, you're
not, you're not over it instantly.
995
:And I think, so for me, I'm really
proud of the way they, they went
996
:through those, but I, they're not back
to where they were before they went.
997
:It, it impacted who they, who
they are and how they, they think.
998
:And I wish I could say, yeah,
they're all a hundred percent
999
:and they're just happy again.
:
00:50:18,611 --> 00:50:21,791
But it was almost like you went from I
don't want to say it wasn't protected,
:
00:50:21,881 --> 00:50:25,151
but he went from an environment where
they thought one way about the world
:
00:50:25,151 --> 00:50:29,251
and then they saw that the world wasn't,
that's not the way the world really was.
:
00:50:29,791 --> 00:50:32,441
And so there's all types of emotional
things that they went through.
:
00:50:32,491 --> 00:50:35,561
I think they're, they're just,
that's just their journey.
:
00:50:35,561 --> 00:50:37,961
That's what we all, when we go
through a different age, went
:
00:50:37,961 --> 00:50:39,131
through whatever we went through.
:
00:50:39,451 --> 00:50:43,301
And so, so I'm really proud of them,
but I don't think they're, it's over.
:
00:50:44,021 --> 00:50:44,321
Yeah.
:
00:50:44,321 --> 00:50:46,431
And you said, are they better for it?
:
00:50:46,451 --> 00:50:49,821
I think they, all three of them
would say, yes, we are better for it
:
00:50:49,851 --> 00:50:54,891
because we learned what we believe
aside from apart from the family,
:
00:50:54,891 --> 00:50:58,201
because before it was always, you
know, what mom and dad thought.
:
00:50:58,626 --> 00:51:02,116
That was what they assumed they
thought they had to step away
:
00:51:02,116 --> 00:51:06,276
to separate themselves from us
and decide what they believe.
:
00:51:06,656 --> 00:51:09,686
So they now have a better
understanding of what they
:
00:51:09,686 --> 00:51:12,136
believe themselves, but the scars.
:
00:51:13,081 --> 00:51:16,081
Carry through and they are still
trying to work through that.
:
00:51:16,261 --> 00:51:17,851
And then what I really like too.
:
00:51:17,951 --> 00:51:20,841
It's actually kind of cool
in a way It's a little scary.
:
00:51:22,051 --> 00:51:28,621
So we have four and one of our our second
oldest has almost become like a Counselor
:
00:51:29,701 --> 00:51:34,111
they can help coach each other Yeah So
we've because we've developed how they
:
00:51:34,121 --> 00:51:37,781
should treat each other with respect and
take responsibility all the things we
:
00:51:37,781 --> 00:51:43,241
were just going through they're there for
each other and sometimes One might feel
:
00:51:43,241 --> 00:51:47,071
more comfortable opening up to one of
their siblings and working through things.
:
00:51:47,661 --> 00:51:51,331
As a parent, I find that really hard
because I want to be the one that Is
:
00:51:51,331 --> 00:51:56,141
there to do whatever I want to be the one
that helps, but, um, we've developed a,
:
00:51:56,251 --> 00:51:59,721
within the family unit, a support system
because they support each other too.
:
00:51:59,941 --> 00:52:03,901
So it's, um, I think that's, it's a
side note, but it's, I found that it's,
:
00:52:03,911 --> 00:52:05,411
it's a result of all those other things.
:
00:52:05,411 --> 00:52:08,041
They now appreciate
what they went through.
:
00:52:08,101 --> 00:52:11,471
They have a perspective on it and
now they can relate to each other.
:
00:52:11,601 --> 00:52:13,041
There's a big corner, Jimmy Song.
:
00:52:13,041 --> 00:52:14,421
I think he has six children.
:
00:52:14,911 --> 00:52:17,731
He said after the third one, they
just start raising themselves.
:
00:52:19,866 --> 00:52:21,326
Self perpetuating algorithms.
:
00:52:22,156 --> 00:52:24,316
He's like, the first three are the
most difficult, and then after that
:
00:52:24,316 --> 00:52:25,586
Yeah, once you're in his own defense.
:
00:52:25,636 --> 00:52:26,016
Yeah.
:
00:52:27,266 --> 00:52:32,456
Um, I mean, this is a little bit
tangential, I think, but, uh, I
:
00:52:32,456 --> 00:52:35,666
wonder if that is, and obviously me
and Pete don't have any children.
:
00:52:36,361 --> 00:52:40,341
So we're just completely diving
in here, um, and trying to
:
00:52:40,341 --> 00:52:41,881
learn from, from you guys.
:
00:52:42,361 --> 00:52:47,771
Um, I feel like maybe one of the challenge
points for some people who choose to do
:
00:52:47,771 --> 00:52:52,951
homeschooling is that they would rather
indoctrinate their kids on what they
:
00:52:52,951 --> 00:52:58,491
believe rather than Empowering them
to be independent critical thinkers.
:
00:52:59,101 --> 00:53:03,791
Uh, I mean, I, I assume you guys
know a lot of other families that
:
00:53:03,791 --> 00:53:04,981
have chose to do homeschooling.
:
00:53:04,991 --> 00:53:09,481
Have you seen that as a pain point
for some families that like, their
:
00:53:09,481 --> 00:53:12,971
main goal of, or, or not their
main, not even intentionally, right?
:
00:53:12,971 --> 00:53:15,871
It's just like, they're just
trying to create mini me's rather
:
00:53:15,881 --> 00:53:17,441
than like new independent people.
:
00:53:18,651 --> 00:53:21,641
Yeah, we have seen, we have
seen families like that.
:
00:53:22,171 --> 00:53:26,811
I think the amazing thing about
children is that they pick up
:
00:53:26,811 --> 00:53:28,191
things that are not taught to them.
:
00:53:28,411 --> 00:53:28,711
Right.
:
00:53:29,231 --> 00:53:31,961
And they will, unless they've
been locked in a closet, which I
:
00:53:31,971 --> 00:53:33,251
don't know anybody who does that.
:
00:53:34,311 --> 00:53:37,871
Home schoolers are out there all
the time, interacting, interacting.
:
00:53:38,241 --> 00:53:46,286
So, even kids who are raised It's very,
very strict and literally with one option,
:
00:53:46,426 --> 00:53:50,816
you know, in their beliefs because of
the, the family beliefs, they are still
:
00:53:50,826 --> 00:53:54,966
constantly being exposed to other kids
and other families because they're
:
00:53:54,976 --> 00:53:59,796
out there and they have the freedom to
interact and, and talk and ask questions.
:
00:54:00,361 --> 00:54:02,041
And really question each other even.
:
00:54:02,421 --> 00:54:06,611
So I'm not too too worried about
that unless the families just
:
00:54:06,631 --> 00:54:10,171
only stay within their family or
they have a circle of friends who
:
00:54:10,171 --> 00:54:11,511
believe exactly the same thing.
:
00:54:11,851 --> 00:54:13,741
I don't think there's any way
that the kids are not going to
:
00:54:13,751 --> 00:54:15,331
be exposed to other beliefs.
:
00:54:15,671 --> 00:54:19,031
And eventually, as a person
matured, you can't help but
:
00:54:19,361 --> 00:54:20,811
Try to form your own identity.
:
00:54:20,841 --> 00:54:22,371
That's just a natural process.
:
00:54:22,731 --> 00:54:26,681
So, would you agree with me that if, if
there were like new parents listening
:
00:54:26,681 --> 00:54:32,391
right now, that, that a key fundamental
of, of going this route is that You are
:
00:54:32,391 --> 00:54:37,641
trying to empower the child to make their
own decisions rather than yeah, yeah,
:
00:54:37,641 --> 00:54:42,571
critical thinking for sure and I probably
tell my kids way too much because I am
:
00:54:42,601 --> 00:54:47,851
always explaining to them why I have come
to a conclusion or why I have come to
:
00:54:47,851 --> 00:54:51,431
a decision if I make them do anything,
I give them like a half an hour lecture
:
00:54:51,441 --> 00:54:53,191
on why I'm making them do something.
:
00:54:53,511 --> 00:54:56,321
To the point where they will look at
me like, mom, okay, that's enough.
:
00:54:56,321 --> 00:54:57,801
We just tell us we need to do it.
:
00:54:58,401 --> 00:55:03,701
But I feel that if I explain to them my
thinking process, then they know how I.
:
00:55:04,111 --> 00:55:07,181
At least the steps, mental steps
that I took to arrive there.
:
00:55:07,231 --> 00:55:10,941
And they can maybe emulate that in their
own mind and make their own decisions.
:
00:55:11,371 --> 00:55:15,071
And if you meet our kids, I don't think
you got to talk to, um, the two that came
:
00:55:15,081 --> 00:55:19,251
the other time, but if you meet them and
talk to them, you can see very quickly
:
00:55:19,251 --> 00:55:23,351
that they are very, very different people
and very different people from us even.
:
00:55:23,786 --> 00:55:27,116
And we actually take pride in that, right?
:
00:55:27,116 --> 00:55:31,916
I don't think even if we had set out to
make mini me's, I don't, I just don't
:
00:55:31,926 --> 00:55:34,516
think that's the way that we were built.
:
00:55:34,666 --> 00:55:39,486
I just don't think you could humanity
or you know, like, I just don't think
:
00:55:39,486 --> 00:55:44,836
if you said, you know, my kid's going
to be this way and that's it, good luck.
:
00:55:44,916 --> 00:55:45,386
I don't know.
:
00:55:45,386 --> 00:55:49,176
I just don't, I, there's certain
things that I, I had hoped that they
:
00:55:49,176 --> 00:55:51,906
would do, like I had gone into service
and I had hoped that at least one of
:
00:55:51,906 --> 00:55:55,786
them, but I don't think any of them
will, and you could fill, you might.
:
00:55:56,151 --> 00:55:59,091
Someone might be in a different
journey with their, their religious.
:
00:55:59,476 --> 00:56:00,316
Uh, status.
:
00:56:00,316 --> 00:56:01,536
It could be the academic.
:
00:56:01,536 --> 00:56:05,576
It could be, um, I don't wanna get too
personal on some of the other things
:
00:56:05,576 --> 00:56:09,366
going on with the relationships and
whatnot, but they're not doing what
:
00:56:09,366 --> 00:56:10,986
we would want them what we would do.
:
00:56:11,026 --> 00:56:11,986
They're not enemies.
:
00:56:12,186 --> 00:56:15,676
And I just, I just don't even
know if we had tried to do that.
:
00:56:15,706 --> 00:56:15,986
I.
:
00:56:16,056 --> 00:56:20,166
I don't see how anybody
could, could really do that.
:
00:56:20,166 --> 00:56:20,626
I just.
:
00:56:21,446 --> 00:56:27,646
That's interesting because my experience,
I've seen a lot of, and not, uh,
:
00:56:28,536 --> 00:56:30,546
not homeschooling specific, right?
:
00:56:30,556 --> 00:56:33,986
Just seeing a lot of parents that want
their kids to be exactly like them.
:
00:56:34,156 --> 00:56:34,696
Yeah.
:
00:56:34,816 --> 00:56:36,256
And like, this is the way you name names.
:
00:56:36,296 --> 00:56:37,066
I want to know who you're talking about.
:
00:56:38,726 --> 00:56:39,766
Um, yeah.
:
00:56:40,116 --> 00:56:41,286
Are they successful?
:
00:56:41,686 --> 00:56:41,876
Yeah.
:
00:56:41,876 --> 00:56:42,306
Do they do it?
:
00:56:42,476 --> 00:56:42,816
Who?
:
00:56:43,096 --> 00:56:44,826
The people you know.
:
00:56:45,506 --> 00:56:47,446
Like, are they, are they
successfully creating mini me's?
:
00:56:47,446 --> 00:56:47,836
Yeah.
:
00:56:47,836 --> 00:56:47,868
Yeah.
:
00:56:47,868 --> 00:56:47,901
Yeah.
:
00:56:48,331 --> 00:56:54,051
I mean, to a degree, I, I, I haven't
seen, you know, uh, I haven't followed
:
00:56:54,061 --> 00:56:59,491
up with the case studies to see like
how the kids have turned out, but, uh,
:
00:57:00,161 --> 00:57:04,381
I mean, you see it in like, you see it
in state school a lot, uh, like, uh,
:
00:57:05,021 --> 00:57:08,201
my experience going through school or
whatever, where the kids, you know, I'm
:
00:57:08,211 --> 00:57:13,676
like 14 years old, 15 years old, And like
the opinions and thought processes and
:
00:57:13,676 --> 00:57:19,316
perspectives of the child are essentially
just a direct rip of the parent and
:
00:57:19,316 --> 00:57:22,856
the kid doesn't know why he thinks
that or why that's the absolute truth.
:
00:57:22,866 --> 00:57:28,246
They just, it just, you know, uh,
drilled into them from a young age.
:
00:57:28,256 --> 00:57:33,006
And I just assume, I assume with
homeschooling that can be to the
:
00:57:33,386 --> 00:57:39,626
even worse extreme just because they
have full, um, right there, they
:
00:57:39,626 --> 00:57:41,186
have the full attention of the child.
:
00:57:41,216 --> 00:57:42,456
They don't have the other.
:
00:57:42,886 --> 00:57:47,746
Necessary other aspects and maybe
even, you know, maybe you don't see
:
00:57:47,746 --> 00:57:54,921
the worst versions of that because
those are the ones that I mean, you
:
00:57:54,921 --> 00:57:58,361
made the joke, which is like that
stereotype of like the negative
:
00:57:58,361 --> 00:58:01,541
homeschooling environment where Harry
Potter's locked in his cupboard, right?
:
00:58:01,571 --> 00:58:05,671
Where like he can't see anybody, but a
less extreme version of that where they
:
00:58:05,671 --> 00:58:08,681
aren't really exposed to other opinions.
:
00:58:08,681 --> 00:58:13,491
They aren't, you know, necessarily, you
know, in public and get to choose, you
:
00:58:13,491 --> 00:58:15,271
know, their route or where they're going.
:
00:58:16,101 --> 00:58:17,981
There's probably extreme cases of that.
:
00:58:18,246 --> 00:58:21,116
I think there has to be, but I also think,
you know, to this thing you said earlier,
:
00:58:21,146 --> 00:58:22,676
that children are incredibly adaptable.
:
00:58:22,676 --> 00:58:24,666
I feel like it's like, it's
almost like trying to like, you
:
00:58:24,666 --> 00:58:26,146
know, cup water in your hands.
:
00:58:26,146 --> 00:58:29,516
It's like people will find, and I
think especially as they're growing
:
00:58:29,516 --> 00:58:32,296
up, people find access to information.
:
00:58:32,831 --> 00:58:35,231
Even when you try to prevent
them from getting access to it.
:
00:58:35,231 --> 00:58:38,041
And so I feel like we're in a lot of
situations, the more pressure that
:
00:58:38,281 --> 00:58:40,761
parents try to put on their children to
be a certain way, like even if they're
:
00:58:40,761 --> 00:58:43,151
homeschooled, you know, the Harry
Potter analogy, like they're going to,
:
00:58:43,221 --> 00:58:45,181
they're going to look up weird shit
on their phone and they're going to
:
00:58:45,181 --> 00:58:46,481
be like, you know, what is this thing?
:
00:58:46,591 --> 00:58:47,761
How do I get access to it?
:
00:58:47,771 --> 00:58:48,541
And they're going to seek it out.
:
00:58:48,551 --> 00:58:52,881
Well, that's a whole different element,
which, you know, Not a parent yet, but
:
00:58:52,991 --> 00:58:59,581
scares the shit out of me, which is like
the balance of internet Social media like
:
00:58:59,581 --> 00:59:05,391
not wanting a kid that you know It's not a
like I would like my kid to be fluent with
:
00:59:05,391 --> 00:59:12,261
computers and technology and but also,
you know Social networks are predatory by
:
00:59:12,261 --> 00:59:18,081
design You need to talk to them And you
need to talk to them and you need to talk
:
00:59:18,081 --> 00:59:20,771
to them and you need to talk to them to
talk to them and you need to talk to them.
:
00:59:20,771 --> 00:59:22,168
Well then you, and then
you need to trust them.
:
00:59:22,168 --> 00:59:24,011
And then you need to trust them.
:
00:59:24,011 --> 00:59:29,081
They're going to make their own
mistakes and you're just, one
:
00:59:29,081 --> 00:59:30,161
thing is a hundred percent sure.
:
00:59:30,161 --> 00:59:32,131
At some point you're not going
to be next to them when they have
:
00:59:32,131 --> 00:59:33,451
to make a decision on something.
:
00:59:33,551 --> 00:59:33,861
Right.
:
00:59:33,981 --> 00:59:39,161
So my point of view is you do your
best to prepare them on how to,
:
00:59:39,561 --> 00:59:42,091
again, going back to the frameworks,
how to think about things.
:
00:59:42,991 --> 00:59:44,921
And then at some point you're
going to, you're going to
:
00:59:44,931 --> 00:59:46,051
have to take a leap of faith.
:
00:59:46,706 --> 00:59:53,316
And, and trust them to take action
on their own and, and I mean, a
:
00:59:53,316 --> 00:59:54,816
kid learns to walk by falling down.
:
00:59:54,816 --> 00:59:58,896
They, you, you ride a bike, you fall
down, there's no way you can teach them
:
00:59:58,896 --> 01:00:03,166
a hundred percent of the things to,
you know, they're going to be exposed
:
01:00:03,166 --> 01:00:06,936
to whatever on social media or it's
pornography or whatever it is that
:
01:00:07,226 --> 01:00:12,006
violence, whatever it might be, drugs, at
some point they're going to have to make
:
01:00:12,006 --> 01:00:13,446
their own decision when you're not there.
:
01:00:13,716 --> 01:00:17,006
And so you're, I think the best thing
you can do is you try to talk and talk
:
01:00:17,006 --> 01:00:22,196
and talk and prepare them, let them know
you're They, you're there if they ever
:
01:00:22,196 --> 01:00:27,696
need you, no matter what, it's, you know,
just whatever happens we're here for you.
:
01:00:28,816 --> 01:00:32,116
But at some point you have to,
you're going to have to let go.
:
01:00:32,206 --> 01:00:35,706
And I just don't see how anybody could
really keep that level of control
:
01:00:35,716 --> 01:00:36,976
that you were, you're describing.
:
01:00:36,996 --> 01:00:41,966
I, at least I personally don't
see how, how you could do that.
:
01:00:41,966 --> 01:00:44,596
I think you're, there's too many
ways of getting other information.
:
01:00:45,491 --> 01:00:47,931
And if you have more than one
kid, you can't physically be
:
01:00:47,931 --> 01:00:49,131
with them all the time anyway.
:
01:00:49,241 --> 01:00:53,681
So, um, I want to add something
to that also before you trust
:
01:00:53,681 --> 01:00:55,351
them, you talk to them first.
:
01:00:55,361 --> 01:01:01,841
So for example, when, when my kids
were, my oldest was, uh, I don't
:
01:01:01,841 --> 01:01:03,371
know, like five or six or whatever.
:
01:01:03,851 --> 01:01:07,081
And we were with a family friend
and she said, have you talked
:
01:01:07,081 --> 01:01:09,416
to You're a child about sex.
:
01:01:09,436 --> 01:01:11,646
And I said, why would I
talk to her about sex?
:
01:01:11,646 --> 01:01:12,586
She's five or six.
:
01:01:13,046 --> 01:01:15,026
And she said, she knows nothing right now.
:
01:01:15,296 --> 01:01:19,306
So you'd be the first to plant an
idea in her mind that it is sacred.
:
01:01:19,316 --> 01:01:20,226
It's a sacred act.
:
01:01:20,226 --> 01:01:22,326
It's not something you throw around.
:
01:01:22,946 --> 01:01:23,616
And I thought.
:
01:01:24,106 --> 01:01:29,386
Ew, that's weird because I don't want to
talk about that, but I ultimately did.
:
01:01:29,876 --> 01:01:33,386
And it was, is, there's a series of
books that actually talk about that
:
01:01:33,386 --> 01:01:36,816
subject in a very general, general way.
:
01:01:36,816 --> 01:01:40,256
So you're not, you know, yeah,
nothing weird, like too crazy,
:
01:01:40,256 --> 01:01:42,726
but you start planting seeds.
:
01:01:42,876 --> 01:01:44,626
You just got to start planting seeds.
:
01:01:44,626 --> 01:01:48,646
And so if you plant seeds when they're
five, six, and you continue to talk about
:
01:01:48,646 --> 01:01:55,726
how important it is to value your, your
body and, um, and take relationships and
:
01:01:55,736 --> 01:01:59,246
friendships seriously, then by the time
they, their hormones kick in, they're
:
01:01:59,246 --> 01:02:03,136
going into puberty, they already have
heard that you don't even have to say it.
:
01:02:03,136 --> 01:02:04,044
Yeah.
:
01:02:04,044 --> 01:02:08,581
So when Like I said, when my friend
mentioned that to me, I was like,
:
01:02:08,581 --> 01:02:11,281
that is the weirdest wackiest,
why would I want to go there?
:
01:02:11,691 --> 01:02:13,151
But I'm really glad that I did.
:
01:02:13,461 --> 01:02:15,011
And I did it with my first three.
:
01:02:15,041 --> 01:02:18,191
And then the fourth one, when he was old
enough, I said, okay, let's sit down.
:
01:02:18,191 --> 01:02:20,251
He goes, You don't need
to tell me anything.
:
01:02:20,251 --> 01:02:21,151
I already know everything.
:
01:02:21,191 --> 01:02:22,526
And I said What?
:
01:02:22,816 --> 01:02:27,066
And he just recited, he
recited the stuff to me.
:
01:02:27,066 --> 01:02:28,476
I'm like, okay, I guess you got it.
:
01:02:28,476 --> 01:02:28,946
Never mind.
:
01:02:29,366 --> 01:02:31,086
So, so Matt, did we answer
your question though?
:
01:02:31,086 --> 01:02:32,026
I don't know if we did.
:
01:02:32,146 --> 01:02:33,976
I think you did.
:
01:02:35,506 --> 01:02:36,106
I have a question.
:
01:02:36,456 --> 01:02:39,766
You mentioned something interesting,
which is that you had hoped that one of
:
01:02:39,766 --> 01:02:40,956
your children would go into the service.
:
01:02:40,966 --> 01:02:43,506
And I think a lot of people think,
we've been talking about how in the
:
01:02:43,506 --> 01:02:47,286
traditional education system, it is,
you know, really the system that's
:
01:02:47,286 --> 01:02:52,431
designed to kind of, um, You know, turn
people into productive units of society.
:
01:02:52,431 --> 01:02:56,581
And I think a lot of people would view
military service in kind of a similar way.
:
01:02:56,581 --> 01:02:59,431
Potentially even more than more so.
:
01:02:59,441 --> 01:02:59,821
Yeah.
:
01:02:59,821 --> 01:03:00,081
Yeah.
:
01:03:00,131 --> 01:03:03,741
So I'm curious where that comes from
and sort of how, how you think about
:
01:03:04,121 --> 01:03:09,991
military service versus traditional
education and why one is preferable or
:
01:03:09,991 --> 01:03:11,881
ideal, you know, ideal versus another.
:
01:03:11,971 --> 01:03:13,031
And do you still believe that?
:
01:03:13,031 --> 01:03:14,221
Do you, do you still?
:
01:03:14,276 --> 01:03:17,826
I wish that at least one of
them went into the service.
:
01:03:18,856 --> 01:03:22,376
They're, at their ages around
now, it's, it's kind of done.
:
01:03:22,396 --> 01:03:24,336
I don't, they're not going
to, they're not going to go.
:
01:03:24,396 --> 01:03:30,936
Um, so to me, the, I didn't know what
I really wanted to do when I was 18.
:
01:03:30,986 --> 01:03:36,736
And for me, the, the service was an
opportunity where, where it kind of
:
01:03:36,736 --> 01:03:38,306
kept you, it had some boundaries.
:
01:03:39,086 --> 01:03:43,106
And the military, I think, is
really good about putting people
:
01:03:43,106 --> 01:03:44,476
through experiences together.
:
01:03:45,386 --> 01:03:48,196
You go, whether it's boot camp or
whatever, you, you go through tough times
:
01:03:48,196 --> 01:03:54,286
together, and then you, you bond, and you
learn about things, and you, you, there's
:
01:03:54,286 --> 01:03:56,926
just something different about that
experience, and if you don't know what you
:
01:03:56,926 --> 01:03:58,686
want to do, it can help with structure.
:
01:03:59,156 --> 01:04:04,446
And I, so for me personally, I, I
grew personally because of that.
:
01:04:05,366 --> 01:04:07,546
Because I, I was kind of otherwise lost.
:
01:04:07,546 --> 01:04:10,366
I didn't have a goal to be just a
doctor or a lawyer or some people know
:
01:04:10,366 --> 01:04:11,666
they want to be a pilot, whatever.
:
01:04:11,686 --> 01:04:12,446
I didn't have that.
:
01:04:13,256 --> 01:04:14,246
So for me, it does that.
:
01:04:14,326 --> 01:04:18,026
And, and honestly, I,
the, I didn't understand.
:
01:04:18,026 --> 01:04:21,266
I went through the public school
system growing up and we would
:
01:04:21,266 --> 01:04:24,976
do the Pledge Allegiance and we
learned history and whatever it was.
:
01:04:24,976 --> 01:04:30,661
And I, I just, you know, I thought the
whole world was the way it was here,
:
01:04:30,801 --> 01:04:36,251
and I didn't fully understand that
the freedoms we have, we have a lot
:
01:04:36,251 --> 01:04:39,591
of things wrong with the government,
it's definitely too big, there's a lot
:
01:04:39,591 --> 01:04:40,641
of things we can go down with that.
:
01:04:40,671 --> 01:04:44,831
On the other hand, we are really
blessed with a lot of things here.
:
01:04:44,961 --> 01:04:47,581
We do have the First Amendment, we have
the Second Amendment, we can talk about
:
01:04:47,581 --> 01:04:52,891
all the craziness that's going on, but
no society has ever been perfect, and I,
:
01:04:52,961 --> 01:04:59,121
and I strongly believe that, We have a
really good thing here, and someone has
:
01:04:59,121 --> 01:05:02,221
to, someone has to do the right thing.
:
01:05:02,301 --> 01:05:04,151
It's not, it's not, it's not free.
:
01:05:04,881 --> 01:05:07,671
And the idea of what service is
now, I look at like Congress and
:
01:05:07,671 --> 01:05:11,501
quote unquote service, and you got,
you know, inside trader Pelosi and
:
01:05:11,511 --> 01:05:12,811
whatever else is going on there.
:
01:05:12,811 --> 01:05:15,921
And I'm like, these people are just,
they're just, they're like a different,
:
01:05:15,931 --> 01:05:18,061
they're their little political class.
:
01:05:18,911 --> 01:05:20,121
That was not the intent.
:
01:05:20,331 --> 01:05:22,951
If you go back to, we're supposed
to have limited government, we're
:
01:05:22,951 --> 01:05:24,281
supposed to have our freedoms.
:
01:05:25,086 --> 01:05:29,536
Like, those things to me are still really
valuable, and I think, yeah, we have a
:
01:05:29,536 --> 01:05:34,096
lot of flaws and a lot of bad things going
on right now, but the idea of service and
:
01:05:34,106 --> 01:05:38,756
serving that ideal in the Constitution,
I still think, yeah, I, I, I do strong,
:
01:05:38,796 --> 01:05:44,451
I have a lot of strong feelings with
that, and I get very upset when I see
:
01:05:44,451 --> 01:05:47,761
people just flaunting it and tearing
it down and trying to rewrite history.
:
01:05:48,331 --> 01:05:50,071
I'm like, you, you're an idiot.
:
01:05:50,231 --> 01:05:52,121
You have no idea what
you're talking about.
:
01:05:52,551 --> 01:05:57,561
If you actually experienced what you think
you're describing, you would hate it.
:
01:05:58,211 --> 01:06:05,291
And um, so I guess, um, I, I
think military services is not for
:
01:06:05,301 --> 01:06:10,211
everyone, but I do think that most
of the people in the service, their
:
01:06:10,221 --> 01:06:11,271
hearts are in the right place.
:
01:06:11,291 --> 01:06:12,811
They're serving for the right reasons.
:
01:06:13,671 --> 01:06:16,371
Um, you have, you have
soldiers on food stamps, right?
:
01:06:16,371 --> 01:06:19,341
And you compare that to the people
getting rich and quote unquote
:
01:06:19,341 --> 01:06:20,901
serving in political office.
:
01:06:21,751 --> 01:06:26,831
So, um, so I still, I still feel
very strongly about the, the, the
:
01:06:26,831 --> 01:06:31,741
military, but as far as our kids,
I have to respect the fact that
:
01:06:31,741 --> 01:06:33,290
that's not, that's not their thing.
:
01:06:33,290 --> 01:06:35,873
They don't want to, there
is a dichotomy there, right?
:
01:06:35,873 --> 01:06:41,321
Like homeschooling versus modern
day military service, I would say.
:
01:06:41,321 --> 01:06:45,261
I mean, I, I, when you, when,
when you're, when you were in
:
01:06:45,261 --> 01:06:46,711
the military, you signed an oath.
:
01:06:47,261 --> 01:06:50,381
You swore an oath to the constitution
to uphold the constitution.
:
01:06:50,831 --> 01:06:56,381
You didn't swear an oath to corrupt
politicians, but my yes, but in
:
01:06:56,381 --> 01:06:59,791
practice, this is Scott's first time
on a podcast, so we need to keep
:
01:06:59,791 --> 01:07:01,281
reminding him to put the mic up.
:
01:07:01,731 --> 01:07:07,041
Um, but in practice, in, in practice
there, you're, you're basically a
:
01:07:07,041 --> 01:07:09,311
pawn for the corrupt political class.
:
01:07:09,381 --> 01:07:09,851
Right.
:
01:07:10,171 --> 01:07:10,471
Right.
:
01:07:11,281 --> 01:07:11,511
Right.
:
01:07:11,511 --> 01:07:13,301
And then, and that was one of
the things I had a hard time.
:
01:07:14,286 --> 01:07:18,316
Reading like the first, like when I, uh,
the Bitcoin standard, when you talk about
:
01:07:18,316 --> 01:07:24,596
how you can have endless wars because of
the money system, it, I had to, it took
:
01:07:24,596 --> 01:07:28,566
me a while to really think on, on that
because I'm like, Oh, wait a minute.
:
01:07:28,566 --> 01:07:32,136
So those in service, are
they, are they a pawn type?
:
01:07:32,146 --> 01:07:32,426
Right.
:
01:07:32,426 --> 01:07:36,216
I wasn't using those words, but
that is a, that is a struggle.
:
01:07:36,286 --> 01:07:40,436
And so, um, so if I'm,
if I'm understanding you
:
01:07:40,436 --> 01:07:41,566
correctly, you're saying.
:
01:07:42,521 --> 01:07:45,381
You should, if you want these
freedoms, don't be a pawn,
:
01:07:45,491 --> 01:07:47,131
therefore don't go into service.
:
01:07:47,701 --> 01:07:49,451
Is that kind of what your, your logic is?
:
01:07:49,461 --> 01:07:55,921
No, I mean, it's just a weird, it's
uh, I agree with you that most people
:
01:07:55,921 --> 01:07:59,971
that go into military service do it
for the quote unquote right reasons
:
01:07:59,971 --> 01:08:01,371
or their heart is in the right place.
:
01:08:01,901 --> 01:08:06,681
Um, to uphold the constitution, to
uphold quote unquote American values,
:
01:08:06,681 --> 01:08:07,781
the things that we care about.
:
01:08:08,441 --> 01:08:16,091
Um, I just, and, and we want as many
people in our nation's military, and
:
01:08:16,091 --> 01:08:18,930
I would even go as far as say police
force and whatnot, that actually
:
01:08:18,930 --> 01:08:22,191
believe in those things and don't
just blindly respect authority.
:
01:08:22,511 --> 01:08:22,770
Correct.
:
01:08:22,770 --> 01:08:23,121
Right?
:
01:08:23,571 --> 01:08:29,751
Um, but in practice, those
people are usually crushed.
:
01:08:30,331 --> 01:08:34,911
And the result is the remainder
are the ones that will just
:
01:08:34,921 --> 01:08:36,560
blindly follow authority.
:
01:08:37,381 --> 01:08:40,501
And I'm trying to be delicate
here because I know it's cliche,
:
01:08:40,501 --> 01:08:41,681
but thank you for your service.
:
01:08:41,751 --> 01:08:44,651
I like respect and grateful
for everyone that has served.
:
01:08:45,131 --> 01:08:50,341
Um, but those people tend to be
crushed and then the remainder are the
:
01:08:50,341 --> 01:08:52,631
ones that blindly respect authority.
:
01:08:52,661 --> 01:08:58,020
And that authority is, is at this
point in our nation's development is
:
01:08:58,991 --> 01:09:01,541
incredibly corrupt, like at its core.
:
01:09:02,031 --> 01:09:09,060
Um, and we saw that to the extreme
during the response to COVID where.
:
01:09:10,145 --> 01:09:14,616
Anyone who refused to get the vaccine
was kicked out of our military and
:
01:09:14,616 --> 01:09:16,106
was kicked out of police forces.
:
01:09:16,345 --> 01:09:21,616
So literally the only people you have
left over is the subservient class.
:
01:09:21,685 --> 01:09:24,236
The people that are just willing
to take it no matter what.
:
01:09:24,265 --> 01:09:25,776
Whatever you say, I'll do it.
:
01:09:26,276 --> 01:09:26,566
Right?
:
01:09:26,566 --> 01:09:33,116
And willing to turn a blind eye when the
person that was serving next to them is
:
01:09:33,621 --> 01:09:38,220
You know, is, is made destitute and, and
put out on the street essentially, right?
:
01:09:38,251 --> 01:09:40,640
And not able to support their
family because they've lost,
:
01:09:40,731 --> 01:09:42,011
they've lost their career.
:
01:09:42,551 --> 01:09:44,981
Yeah, I found that very disturbing,
what happened with all that, with the
:
01:09:45,001 --> 01:09:46,421
I mean, that's the extreme, right?
:
01:09:46,421 --> 01:09:48,111
But we were already trending that way.
:
01:09:48,720 --> 01:09:51,401
And then it was, you know,
like Parker, Parker Lewis, but
:
01:09:51,421 --> 01:09:52,831
gradually then suddenly, right?
:
01:09:52,841 --> 01:09:56,061
Like there was a gradual
Push in that direction.
:
01:09:56,501 --> 01:10:01,031
And then we had like the sudden
band aid rip of the COVID response.
:
01:10:02,021 --> 01:10:04,711
Um, and it should be interesting
to see how that all plays out.
:
01:10:04,711 --> 01:10:09,721
But I mean, we had a close
friend who was working with us
:
01:10:09,721 --> 01:10:11,761
at Bitcoin Magazine, me and P.
:
01:10:12,906 --> 01:10:19,356
And he was in the military and he
had actually retired a couple months
:
01:10:19,356 --> 01:10:24,406
before he had done his, his, his, he
had done his service and he retired
:
01:10:24,406 --> 01:10:26,546
according to their, their scheme, right?
:
01:10:26,546 --> 01:10:30,166
And he was getting his, he was, he was
on track to get his military pension.
:
01:10:30,966 --> 01:10:33,476
And they said as a retired person.
:
01:10:34,181 --> 01:10:36,921
That he needed to comply with
the vaccine mandate, otherwise
:
01:10:36,921 --> 01:10:38,081
he wouldn't get his pension.
:
01:10:39,031 --> 01:10:42,091
Um, so we saw that first hand
and him battling with that.
:
01:10:42,271 --> 01:10:42,591
Yeah.
:
01:10:42,751 --> 01:10:47,101
Um, and he was ultimately, he's like,
I'm going to fight this to the end.
:
01:10:47,741 --> 01:10:50,851
Out of principle, you know, I'm not
going to just fucking do this thing.
:
01:10:50,931 --> 01:10:53,021
He's like, even if I wanted
to take the vaccine, like, I'm
:
01:10:53,021 --> 01:10:54,271
not complying with this shit.
:
01:10:55,011 --> 01:10:58,351
Um, but yeah, I mean, it's
just crazy to witness.
:
01:10:59,151 --> 01:11:00,041
Yeah, I agree.
:
01:11:00,041 --> 01:11:04,111
There's It is the, but I mean, if we,
if we get the money, if we can fix the
:
01:11:04,121 --> 01:11:07,631
money, then we can, there's a lot of
things including fix the incentives.
:
01:11:07,631 --> 01:11:09,801
It's broken incentives everywhere, right?
:
01:11:11,401 --> 01:11:11,741
Okay.
:
01:11:11,771 --> 01:11:14,021
Um, this has been a great conversation.
:
01:11:14,031 --> 01:11:18,291
We're a little bit over an hour in, uh,
let's, uh, shall we talk about this?
:
01:11:18,301 --> 01:11:18,981
Awesome.
:
01:11:19,001 --> 01:11:20,601
This awesome board game you created.
:
01:11:20,631 --> 01:11:23,971
And I, I, once again, I, I said this
to, I said this at the beginning of
:
01:11:23,991 --> 01:11:27,511
the episode, but I said this to Scott
and Tali when we played the game.
:
01:11:29,211 --> 01:11:33,091
I don't say this lightly when I say it's
the best Bitcoin game I've ever played.
:
01:11:33,591 --> 01:11:35,341
Uh, I played many Bitcoin games.
:
01:11:35,421 --> 01:11:36,651
A lot of people want feedback.
:
01:11:37,091 --> 01:11:42,831
Uh, When you asked, uh, for feedback and I
met you for the first time, like literally
:
01:11:42,851 --> 01:11:47,011
no idea who you were, uh, you're standing
in Bitcoin Park and you're like, I have
:
01:11:47,011 --> 01:11:48,761
this Bitcoin game in the back of my head.
:
01:11:48,761 --> 01:11:51,061
I was like, well, it seems like a nice
guy, but the game definitely sucks.
:
01:11:51,731 --> 01:11:53,051
I was like, but I'll play with him.
:
01:11:53,051 --> 01:11:54,111
I like, I like games.
:
01:11:54,111 --> 01:11:55,021
I like competition.
:
01:11:55,021 --> 01:11:56,041
Like I'll play the game.
:
01:11:56,641 --> 01:12:02,161
And, uh, it wasn't just like a shitty
game with like Bitcoin bolted on.
:
01:12:02,191 --> 01:12:03,171
It's a good game.
:
01:12:03,181 --> 01:12:06,071
Like it's just a good game
regardless of, of Bitcoin.
:
01:12:06,506 --> 01:12:11,946
Um, and, and yeah, so at that point,
after we recorded that, after we recorded,
:
01:12:11,976 --> 01:12:15,666
after we played that game, which by
the way, I won and beat Scott, I was
:
01:12:15,696 --> 01:12:18,876
wondering if that was going to come up
and I even caught Scott not following his
:
01:12:18,876 --> 01:12:22,716
own rules, I called him out at one point
because I was keeping, don't trust verify
:
01:12:22,716 --> 01:12:25,316
freaks, that's right, um, very proud.
:
01:12:25,316 --> 01:12:27,496
I was like, we have to do
a dispatch on this game.
:
01:12:27,861 --> 01:12:32,111
And homeschooling because you
guys are just massive amount
:
01:12:32,111 --> 01:12:33,511
of knowledge in your heads.
:
01:12:34,211 --> 01:12:36,751
Uh, I don't want to keep it to myself,
but anyway, let's talk about this game.
:
01:12:36,761 --> 01:12:37,821
It's called huddle up.
:
01:12:38,061 --> 01:12:40,651
Uh, people can find it at freemarketkids.
:
01:12:40,651 --> 01:12:41,011
com.
:
01:12:41,021 --> 01:12:42,081
Fantastic name.
:
01:12:42,771 --> 01:12:46,351
Um, give us, let's start us
off, Scott, give us the show.
:
01:12:46,641 --> 01:12:49,971
So, um, it's, um, I appreciate
those, uh, those words.
:
01:12:49,971 --> 01:12:53,091
And I, it, it, I was, uh, just
blown away that you would actually
:
01:12:53,091 --> 01:12:55,271
give the time to actually have a.
:
01:12:55,826 --> 01:12:58,656
Stranger walk up to you and ask a favor.
:
01:12:58,756 --> 01:13:02,646
Um, I was just kind of like, I was
just kind of wowing the whole way home.
:
01:13:02,646 --> 01:13:05,026
Tommy's like, you know,
why is this big deal?
:
01:13:05,026 --> 01:13:06,586
I'm like, don't you understand?
:
01:13:06,616 --> 01:13:09,156
Like, this is so thanks
for thanks for that.
:
01:13:09,476 --> 01:13:14,746
The, this, this combines
just a few passions for me.
:
01:13:14,746 --> 01:13:15,486
So I've always liked.
:
01:13:16,016 --> 01:13:16,416
Games.
:
01:13:16,416 --> 01:13:18,046
There's a lot of benefits to them.
:
01:13:18,606 --> 01:13:21,106
The fellowship, the in person,
you're away from the screen time.
:
01:13:21,106 --> 01:13:23,766
There's a lot of, there are a lot
of things, but since we're talking
:
01:13:23,766 --> 01:13:27,206
about education, there's, there's
also a lot of educational benefit.
:
01:13:27,286 --> 01:13:31,236
So when the kids were young, for
example, we, we bought the Kiyosaki.
:
01:13:31,551 --> 01:13:32,611
Cashflow for kids.
:
01:13:32,611 --> 01:13:36,971
And you're always looking for
other ways to make the education,
:
01:13:38,131 --> 01:13:41,751
the education wasn't always
just about the ABCs and math.
:
01:13:41,901 --> 01:13:45,661
So Tali's like, I'm going to
put them into, I can't remember
:
01:13:45,661 --> 01:13:46,671
all the different activities.
:
01:13:46,721 --> 01:13:50,941
And then, so this, the games was
just another way of teaching.
:
01:13:52,041 --> 01:13:55,181
When I met in business
school, so we, we've kind of.
:
01:13:56,316 --> 01:13:59,566
We're inclined towards the financial
and economic side anyways, we're
:
01:13:59,566 --> 01:14:03,296
like, we better, how can two MBAs
not teach their kids about things?
:
01:14:03,556 --> 01:14:07,496
And the, the games are kind
of like the overlap of that.
:
01:14:07,496 --> 01:14:10,816
It was, it was, I want
my kids to understand.
:
01:14:11,631 --> 01:14:12,431
what this is.
:
01:14:12,491 --> 01:14:17,491
I have a lot of other ideas of
things I want to teach them and
:
01:14:17,561 --> 01:14:19,151
they are not always receptive.
:
01:14:19,151 --> 01:14:21,011
Our kids are not always receptive.
:
01:14:21,541 --> 01:14:22,831
They think it's another lecture.
:
01:14:22,871 --> 01:14:25,881
You know, dad's excited about
something, mom's on a tangent on
:
01:14:25,881 --> 01:14:31,881
whatever, whatever it is and and this
is a way where I, we could, I could
:
01:14:31,891 --> 01:14:33,981
selfishly do something with my family.
:
01:14:33,991 --> 01:14:36,261
My, my parents included,
my brother included.
:
01:14:36,271 --> 01:14:40,021
They're, they don't understand why
Tali and I are passionate about.
:
01:14:40,461 --> 01:14:46,601
About Bitcoin, but they were willing
to for two years help me play test
:
01:14:46,601 --> 01:14:47,931
this game and work things out.
:
01:14:47,991 --> 01:14:48,671
That's so cool.
:
01:14:49,081 --> 01:14:55,441
So, okay, so I don't have to
strong arm them into doing this.
:
01:14:56,071 --> 01:14:56,591
I have to.
:
01:14:57,036 --> 01:14:57,776
And it was actually good.
:
01:14:57,776 --> 01:15:00,816
My brother and I, we go to a game
conference every, every year.
:
01:15:00,816 --> 01:15:01,296
We just love it.
:
01:15:01,296 --> 01:15:02,556
And so we were play testing.
:
01:15:02,556 --> 01:15:03,756
He's like, well, what's this wallet thing?
:
01:15:04,496 --> 01:15:05,506
And we, we need to be able to do this.
:
01:15:05,516 --> 01:15:07,636
And I go, no, you can't do that
because you can't do that in Bitcoin.
:
01:15:07,636 --> 01:15:09,166
And he's like, well, I don't really care.
:
01:15:09,166 --> 01:15:09,746
It's a game.
:
01:15:10,446 --> 01:15:14,786
And so I, it forced me to go
back and do more research.
:
01:15:14,916 --> 01:15:19,086
And so it forced me to learn
better what this really was.
:
01:15:19,086 --> 01:15:20,356
And of course, the more I learned.
:
01:15:21,236 --> 01:15:25,786
The more hardened I became about the
opportunity and the more excited I
:
01:15:25,786 --> 01:15:29,506
got about it, but long story short,
this is the way this is what I
:
01:15:29,516 --> 01:15:32,886
would like to have to selfishly to
be able to get with my own family.
:
01:15:33,066 --> 01:15:35,956
And then Holly was like, well, kind
of put your money where your mouth
:
01:15:35,956 --> 01:15:37,816
is with these with these ideas.
:
01:15:37,816 --> 01:15:40,916
We're always telling the kids
they should start a business.
:
01:15:41,346 --> 01:15:42,516
There's a lot of opportunities.
:
01:15:42,516 --> 01:15:46,956
You don't have to look at the traditional
schooling, like universities, and
:
01:15:46,966 --> 01:15:48,316
that was that's where it started.
:
01:15:48,886 --> 01:15:49,746
It was just a combination.
:
01:15:49,746 --> 01:15:51,226
I was passionate about the subject.
:
01:15:51,511 --> 01:15:56,051
And to this day, the kids are well,
one of one of our, our daughters is.
:
01:15:56,881 --> 01:16:00,321
Is actually excited about
investing in, in Bitcoin.
:
01:16:01,321 --> 01:16:06,501
But someday what I'm hoping is they,
they come back, maybe it's a few
:
01:16:06,501 --> 01:16:09,501
years or whatever it is, and they're
going to say, okay, now I'm ready.
:
01:16:09,501 --> 01:16:11,291
And now I have this all packaged up.
:
01:16:11,291 --> 01:16:14,591
I have the game and there were so
many elements I couldn't put into it.
:
01:16:14,916 --> 01:16:18,446
I said, I'll just put those into a
book on the side and that's what the,
:
01:16:18,696 --> 01:16:22,816
um, I'm building the, um, basically
I'm learning through games, 21 Bitcoin
:
01:16:22,826 --> 01:16:25,576
lessons that you could go with the game.
:
01:16:25,826 --> 01:16:27,736
And so selfishly, this is what I wanted.
:
01:16:28,646 --> 01:16:32,036
And now, um, now I'm just really excited.
:
01:16:32,036 --> 01:16:34,876
Like today, we got an opportunity
to, to, to introduce it to some
:
01:16:34,876 --> 01:16:36,356
new folks here at Bitcoin Park.
:
01:16:36,356 --> 01:16:41,016
And it's actually really exciting to
share with other Bitcoiners and not my
:
01:16:41,016 --> 01:16:42,716
family who doesn't understand Bitcoin.
:
01:16:43,491 --> 01:16:46,651
And then for them to say, Hey, I can
give this to my family or, Hey, I
:
01:16:46,651 --> 01:16:47,931
can share this with somebody else.
:
01:16:47,941 --> 01:16:48,571
And it's a way.
:
01:16:48,571 --> 01:16:54,431
So if imagine this was in our schools
or if this was in our libraries, or this
:
01:16:54,431 --> 01:16:59,401
was, if you had a Bitcoin meetup on a
regular basis, that was just game night.
:
01:17:00,361 --> 01:17:04,001
There's a lot of opportunity where we
can help get these ideas out to others
:
01:17:04,041 --> 01:17:09,721
without coming across as read this book or
listen to this podcast or whatever it is.
:
01:17:10,351 --> 01:17:14,461
Um, but selfishly, I just like games
and I really enjoyed designing them.
:
01:17:15,206 --> 01:17:18,796
And I really liked the education
side and that's kind of the, the
:
01:17:18,796 --> 01:17:22,276
Genesis for, uh, for the game itself.
:
01:17:22,526 --> 01:17:27,516
And the reason it took two years was one,
I, I was still learning Bitcoin and two,
:
01:17:27,516 --> 01:17:31,816
it was really hard to figure out something
that was simple enough to play, but was
:
01:17:31,846 --> 01:17:34,026
good enough that it brought up an idea to.
:
01:17:34,526 --> 01:17:35,706
I'd actually want to talk about.
:
01:17:36,906 --> 01:17:41,906
So my brother asked me, well, why are
the, why did the number of tokens go
:
01:17:41,906 --> 01:17:43,646
down by half every once in a while?
:
01:17:43,976 --> 01:17:44,216
Okay.
:
01:17:44,216 --> 01:17:45,346
Well, that's a whole subject.
:
01:17:46,126 --> 01:17:46,966
Why what's this wallet?
:
01:17:46,966 --> 01:17:49,756
Why is a wallet have a, why is there
a cold wallet and a hot wallet?
:
01:17:50,026 --> 01:17:50,716
Like who cares?
:
01:17:50,726 --> 01:17:51,306
Like that kind of thing.
:
01:17:51,336 --> 01:17:54,251
And so there's so many ways to have.
:
01:17:54,761 --> 01:17:56,861
Conversations that are
just a starting point.
:
01:17:56,961 --> 01:17:57,211
Yeah.
:
01:17:57,361 --> 01:17:59,181
They're like the seeds that you can plant.
:
01:17:59,191 --> 01:18:03,931
So, um, really excited to, to share
with others and have other people join
:
01:18:03,931 --> 01:18:08,191
in games, I think, especially after
COVID being able to do things in person,
:
01:18:08,191 --> 01:18:09,271
there's just something different.
:
01:18:09,951 --> 01:18:11,161
And that's why.
:
01:18:11,876 --> 01:18:14,726
You know, Matt, what you and Rod are
building here at the Bitcoin part.
:
01:18:14,726 --> 01:18:18,556
This is why we're willing to drive
here is because like we get to connect.
:
01:18:18,596 --> 01:18:19,516
How long is the drive?
:
01:18:19,646 --> 01:18:20,286
Three hours.
:
01:18:20,296 --> 01:18:20,786
Three hours.
:
01:18:21,266 --> 01:18:27,096
And like, I can't describe to you how
much, like how valuable that is personally
:
01:18:27,146 --> 01:18:31,675
to be able to come and then be with
people that you, that You can understand,
:
01:18:31,876 --> 01:18:33,006
understand the way they're speaking.
:
01:18:33,016 --> 01:18:36,256
You may not have the same background,
but there's a connection there.
:
01:18:36,306 --> 01:18:41,856
And, um, to me, games are, games are
a way of, of connecting with people.
:
01:18:41,976 --> 01:18:44,006
You don't have to feel like you
have to have a conversation going.
:
01:18:44,006 --> 01:18:45,766
You can just sit there
and make small talk.
:
01:18:46,366 --> 01:18:49,566
If you want to geek out like a
homeschooling dad and build a lecture in
:
01:18:49,566 --> 01:18:51,776
it, you can go for it, or you can just.
:
01:18:52,156 --> 01:18:57,436
Just play, we're just going to play and
so that's, um, that's where it started and
:
01:18:57,436 --> 01:19:02,286
now I'm kind of getting more excited about
sharing it as I see people react to it.
:
01:19:04,126 --> 01:19:09,536
So interesting, you know, really
creating the process of creating a game.
:
01:19:09,606 --> 01:19:12,896
And as you said, building out the
effective game mechanics and really play
:
01:19:12,896 --> 01:19:16,436
testing it and being able to distill
it down into the essential components.
:
01:19:16,766 --> 01:19:23,226
While also creating a really profound
and correct educational opportunity.
:
01:19:23,276 --> 01:19:27,026
That seems so challenging to me
and I haven't played it yet, but
:
01:19:27,026 --> 01:19:28,666
I'm really, really excited to.
:
01:19:29,026 --> 01:19:32,696
And I think also, as you said,
like having a physical game that.
:
01:19:33,486 --> 01:19:37,556
Has mechanics that are exciting enough
so that someone who doesn't understand
:
01:19:37,566 --> 01:19:39,656
Bitcoin still can enjoy the game.
:
01:19:39,656 --> 01:19:41,956
I just think that's such a,
uh, an effective way of, you
:
01:19:41,956 --> 01:19:44,896
know, in a positive sense, like
Trojan horsing what Bitcoin is.
:
01:19:44,896 --> 01:19:45,786
Oh, absolutely.
:
01:19:46,136 --> 01:19:46,476
It did.
:
01:19:46,476 --> 01:19:47,916
I'll tell you just, uh, on that.
:
01:19:47,916 --> 01:19:51,966
So for example, one of the biggest
arguments I got into with my
:
01:19:51,966 --> 01:19:55,816
brother doing this was, I'm like,
you can't move someone's Bitcoin
:
01:19:55,816 --> 01:19:56,746
if they don't have the keys.
:
01:19:56,796 --> 01:19:57,206
That's it.
:
01:19:58,016 --> 01:20:02,076
And his, his point was, well, if you
start out before the halving, You're
:
01:20:02,076 --> 01:20:03,756
going to get a lot of the Bitcoin.
:
01:20:03,756 --> 01:20:05,456
So whoever starts out, that's it.
:
01:20:05,466 --> 01:20:06,086
The game's over.
:
01:20:06,086 --> 01:20:07,696
There's no, you have to
be able to move stuff.
:
01:20:08,836 --> 01:20:11,366
And that was probably one of the
things that we went back and forth
:
01:20:11,376 --> 01:20:14,546
the longest on, and then it, what it
ended with for those that haven't.
:
01:20:14,951 --> 01:20:18,971
Played obviously the the audience built
that in that you can try to have a
:
01:20:18,971 --> 01:20:23,951
transaction to move something and someone
can fight If your bitcoin is on the hot
:
01:20:23,951 --> 01:20:29,671
side of the your your card it's vulnerable
you roll the die and you got a chance that
:
01:20:29,671 --> 01:20:34,986
someone did a phishing scam or they they
they did a sim swap or some other They
:
01:20:34,986 --> 01:20:38,586
did something else to you, but there's
also a risk for the person who's attacking
:
01:20:38,586 --> 01:20:42,766
you that you successfully defended
and you get to, to, to move it on.
:
01:20:42,766 --> 01:20:47,536
So it turned out to be a really
great learning point, but there
:
01:20:47,536 --> 01:20:50,326
was a lot of back and forth of
like, just, well, it's a game.
:
01:20:50,326 --> 01:20:51,386
It has to be playable.
:
01:20:51,746 --> 01:20:52,776
So how do you work in there?
:
01:20:52,776 --> 01:20:57,866
But I'm like, yeah, but I can't compromise
on, I can't compromise on how it works.
:
01:20:57,866 --> 01:20:59,856
And so it's not perfect.
:
01:20:59,866 --> 01:21:02,046
There's some things in there
that are not a hundred percent.
:
01:21:02,731 --> 01:21:06,611
Exactly right in terms of terminology,
but I just try to squeeze everything
:
01:21:06,611 --> 01:21:10,851
I could in there to to do it that
that that was one of the ones that I
:
01:21:10,851 --> 01:21:13,561
think now is a good thing as I watch
people play because there's a lot of
:
01:21:13,561 --> 01:21:18,821
conversation about protecting your your
Bitcoin and there's a chance if you are
:
01:21:18,821 --> 01:21:22,511
behind being a game you can actually
catch up so you can still Yeah, I can
:
01:21:22,511 --> 01:21:25,791
play with my brother and I don't have
to worry about discussing keys with him.
:
01:21:25,791 --> 01:21:27,050
I can just play the game.
:
01:21:27,541 --> 01:21:28,111
We're good.
:
01:21:28,701 --> 01:21:34,216
So I think one of the things that the
game helped me personally is seeing the
:
01:21:34,496 --> 01:21:37,996
blockchain visually and seeing how it's
constructed, even though it's just a model
:
01:21:39,136 --> 01:21:44,296
to help me understand the abstract idea
of the blockchain, because I'm not techie.
:
01:21:44,306 --> 01:21:47,341
And when people talk blockchain,
It just goes over my head.
:
01:21:47,351 --> 01:21:52,501
I don't know why, why a string of
numbers should mean anything at
:
01:21:52,501 --> 01:21:56,381
all until he put out this game and
started explaining things to me.
:
01:21:56,381 --> 01:21:57,931
I'm like, Oh, that's what
you're talking about.
:
01:21:58,231 --> 01:22:00,711
It's just sometimes you just
need to touch something, right?
:
01:22:01,611 --> 01:22:02,641
I'm a big believer in that.
:
01:22:03,941 --> 01:22:06,961
That's also like when Scott was
like trying to explain the rules.
:
01:22:06,961 --> 01:22:08,741
It's like, can we just play
the, can we just play the game?
:
01:22:09,201 --> 01:22:11,550
Yeah, I like learning by fire.
:
01:22:11,871 --> 01:22:14,311
That's going to influence how we do
game nights, by the way, we're not
:
01:22:14,311 --> 01:22:15,261
going to show them videos or anything.
:
01:22:15,261 --> 01:22:16,961
We're just going to go, okay,
we're just going to jump right
:
01:22:16,961 --> 01:22:17,561
in and start doing stuff.
:
01:22:17,881 --> 01:22:21,701
Yeah, we're going to do, we're going
to do game nights at Bitcoin Park with
:
01:22:21,711 --> 01:22:27,431
Scott and Tali, uh, so people can play
the game firsthand, uh, be a lot of fun.
:
01:22:27,461 --> 01:22:30,751
I mean, Scott was mentioning that right
before this podcast, uh, we had a bunch
:
01:22:30,751 --> 01:22:34,041
of people at Bitcoin Park playing the game
and I, Scott, like kind of looked at me.
:
01:22:34,041 --> 01:22:35,231
He's like, do we have
enough time for the podcast?
:
01:22:35,271 --> 01:22:36,761
I was like, Scott, go get the game.
:
01:22:36,800 --> 01:22:37,741
Let's play the game.
:
01:22:37,751 --> 01:22:38,751
Like we have to play it.
:
01:22:40,151 --> 01:22:42,576
I I, you tried to get me to
play and I was like, no, no.
:
01:22:42,726 --> 01:22:44,716
I went around and immediately
I was like, I fucked up.
:
01:22:44,716 --> 01:22:45,706
I should, I should be playing this game.
:
01:22:45,706 --> 01:22:46,336
It looks so much fun.
:
01:22:46,336 --> 01:22:48,646
So instead we roped him
into the podcast, . Oh yeah.
:
01:22:50,175 --> 01:22:53,536
No, but I'd appreciate that you're,
I I mean it's, it was that, that
:
01:22:53,541 --> 01:22:56,356
experience of playing the first
time here was, it was great.
:
01:22:56,356 --> 01:22:59,986
'cause you guys were the first
Bitcoiners that I had to test it with.
:
01:22:59,986 --> 01:23:00,796
That's interesting.
:
01:23:00,800 --> 01:23:01,050
Mm-Hmm.
:
01:23:01,231 --> 01:23:03,566
. And I wasn't sure how it was gonna fly.
:
01:23:03,566 --> 01:23:05,066
Like, you know, you had a good game there.
:
01:23:05,066 --> 01:23:07,886
But you didn't know if it was Actually
I didn't, yeah, I didn't know.
:
01:23:07,886 --> 01:23:09,131
Held up with big Bitcoin, but I already.
:
01:23:09,800 --> 01:23:16,231
It already kind of committed to it along
the way to, to make it, but, um, but I
:
01:23:16,231 --> 01:23:19,861
mean, it took you, you guys picked up the
concepts much faster, I think, than people
:
01:23:19,861 --> 01:23:24,300
who are not used to the terminology and
other things that are in the, in the game.
:
01:23:25,151 --> 01:23:29,201
Um, and so I was, yeah, even though you
beat me, which I was not happy about, but
:
01:23:29,201 --> 01:23:32,461
I, but I was like, wow, they, they got it.
:
01:23:32,491 --> 01:23:37,581
Like they, and I was like, that
actually was really, um, fulfilling to.
:
01:23:37,846 --> 01:23:38,416
To do that.
:
01:23:38,496 --> 01:23:40,646
I, I just, it was really,
it was really kind of a cool
:
01:23:40,646 --> 01:23:41,836
moment for me personally to see.
:
01:23:42,806 --> 01:23:45,526
Okay, Bitcoiners,
Bitcoiners are okay with it.
:
01:23:46,816 --> 01:23:47,526
Okay, all right.
:
01:23:47,526 --> 01:23:49,706
That's what, that was,
that was like the test.
:
01:23:49,736 --> 01:23:52,896
If, if Bitcoin, because if you, if you
looked at it and said, huh, good luck.
:
01:23:53,306 --> 01:23:53,706
Right.
:
01:23:53,706 --> 01:23:57,656
I mean, and one of the Bitcoiners that
we had playing with us, uh, this great
:
01:23:57,675 --> 01:24:00,366
dude, Ben, I was hoping he was going
to join us for this conversation,
:
01:24:00,366 --> 01:24:02,675
but Schedules and we moved it up.
:
01:24:03,186 --> 01:24:06,776
He actually, he had bought the game
from you and then he brought it back
:
01:24:06,786 --> 01:24:10,026
for Christmas and was playing it with
his family who were not Bitcoiners.
:
01:24:10,316 --> 01:24:11,446
It's on the opposite side.
:
01:24:11,546 --> 01:24:12,706
He said it went really well.
:
01:24:13,446 --> 01:24:16,936
Um, and they started to actually
understand it and it makes sense
:
01:24:16,946 --> 01:24:21,296
because if you go back to Why you
created this game in the first
:
01:24:21,296 --> 01:24:25,066
place is you were a bit of the crazy
Bitcoiner in the family, right?
:
01:24:25,336 --> 01:24:28,206
And you're like, how can I show that?
:
01:24:28,206 --> 01:24:30,016
I'm not at least completely crazy.
:
01:24:31,286 --> 01:24:35,356
So I'm gonna go build this game So you
guys will learn I would love to talk to
:
01:24:35,356 --> 01:24:38,536
him about how the feedback from yeah,
we'll talk He'll be here this week.
:
01:24:38,536 --> 01:24:40,506
So you'll you'll be able
to talk to him about it.
:
01:24:41,606 --> 01:24:43,126
He was very excited He brought it up.
:
01:24:43,126 --> 01:24:43,646
Not me.
:
01:24:44,296 --> 01:24:44,886
Oh wonderful.
:
01:24:44,896 --> 01:24:45,726
Very excited.
:
01:24:45,826 --> 01:24:50,896
Yeah, but anyway, so
Where do we go with this?
:
01:24:52,276 --> 01:25:00,591
So it's a board game I love board games,
um, up to six players can play, uh,
:
01:25:02,441 --> 01:25:06,931
and a lot of surface level concepts
are, are, are, it's, it's, there's,
:
01:25:06,941 --> 01:25:10,971
there's an educational element to it,
um, it's, but it's just also just a fun
:
01:25:10,971 --> 01:25:16,441
competitive game that works, um, so,
so what are the educational elements,
:
01:25:16,471 --> 01:25:21,871
uh, there's a difficulty adjustment in
it, which is, which is key, halving is
:
01:25:21,871 --> 01:25:28,741
obviously massive, block reward, block
subsidy, Um, hot and cold wallets, every
:
01:25:28,741 --> 01:25:32,031
player has a hot and cold wallet and
if your bitcoins in your hot wallet, it
:
01:25:32,031 --> 01:25:36,911
can be taken from you because you, you
can choose to invest in mining, right?
:
01:25:36,961 --> 01:25:41,691
And you can also invest, yes, you can, you
can exchange your, your Bitcoin and invest
:
01:25:41,691 --> 01:25:46,800
in additional rigs that you get additional
nonce cards or additional chances to mine.
:
01:25:47,111 --> 01:25:49,861
I wanted something to reward
people for making that investment.
:
01:25:51,101 --> 01:25:52,781
Um, you also have the halving event.
:
01:25:52,791 --> 01:25:55,661
I think we mentioned that before.
:
01:25:55,661 --> 01:26:01,511
The halving really, uh, it's visceral.
:
01:26:02,071 --> 01:26:04,661
It captures the FOMO of
the halving very well.
:
01:26:05,431 --> 01:26:08,391
As you're playing, you're like, Oh my God,
there's not enough Bitcoin to go around.
:
01:26:08,401 --> 01:26:10,141
Like, I need this Bitcoin now.
:
01:26:10,231 --> 01:26:10,800
That's so funny.
:
01:26:10,800 --> 01:26:12,761
I wonder how many people
are going to play this game.
:
01:26:13,266 --> 01:26:16,916
And then it's going to fundamentally
change their strategy around how they
:
01:26:16,916 --> 01:26:18,216
acquire Bitcoin in the real world.
:
01:26:20,066 --> 01:26:26,826
No, if it'll be that big, I, um, I, I
feel like I, it was to, to your point
:
01:26:26,826 --> 01:26:30,506
though, what was interesting is that so
we've played this with like homeschooling
:
01:26:30,516 --> 01:26:37,096
kids that come over and there's always a
different dynamic and how people play it.
:
01:26:37,376 --> 01:26:41,126
And when this first game
with, with Bitcoiners.
:
01:26:41,675 --> 01:26:44,916
Like it took like one or two
hands and then they clicked in.
:
01:26:46,196 --> 01:26:49,696
And then it was like, I started to hear
comments, like there's a having coming
:
01:26:49,696 --> 01:26:51,566
up, so maybe I should do this instead.
:
01:26:51,796 --> 01:26:54,925
And they're like, well, maybe,
but so and so is ahead right now.
:
01:26:54,925 --> 01:26:56,016
Here's a difficulty adjustment.
:
01:26:56,036 --> 01:26:57,376
Maybe I should go to cold storage.
:
01:26:57,376 --> 01:26:58,126
There was all these.
:
01:26:58,896 --> 01:27:03,046
Like thought processes that people
were vocalizing and I just loved it.
:
01:27:03,046 --> 01:27:06,876
I was like, because there's, there's
elements of chance in there, but
:
01:27:06,876 --> 01:27:10,956
you also can make decisions on the
collusion and all that stuff, right?
:
01:27:10,956 --> 01:27:14,206
So it introduces, I think, Matt,
to your question that there's, um,
:
01:27:14,425 --> 01:27:18,916
when I wrote the book, there were 12
different chapters that are just kind
:
01:27:18,916 --> 01:27:22,026
of fundamental Bitcoin, things like
the having or the difficult adjustment.
:
01:27:22,581 --> 01:27:26,691
I have one chapter just on bad actors,
which is the die, and so I broke that
:
01:27:26,691 --> 01:27:31,621
out, and then the remaining nine chapters
are on each of the, there's one type of
:
01:27:31,621 --> 01:27:35,451
card in the game that you need to make a
transaction called a hash card, and that's
:
01:27:35,451 --> 01:27:37,031
what links things on the time chain.
:
01:27:37,251 --> 01:27:41,261
So every, every block you,
you, you put down has to be
:
01:27:41,261 --> 01:27:42,331
linked to the one before it.
:
01:27:43,541 --> 01:27:48,136
And the Those cards all have
a unique expression on them.
:
01:27:48,136 --> 01:27:51,476
There's no, no two are the same,
no two hashes are the same.
:
01:27:51,696 --> 01:27:54,836
And that was my personal compromise
for all the other things that
:
01:27:54,836 --> 01:27:58,066
I wish I could have brought in
and to talk about, but couldn't.
:
01:27:58,986 --> 01:28:01,386
So I just have a lot of
vocabulary on, on there.
:
01:28:01,386 --> 01:28:04,556
And so the last nine chapters
basically take the theme of those.
:
01:28:04,616 --> 01:28:06,276
So these are themes about frameworks.
:
01:28:06,276 --> 01:28:08,626
These are themes about, you
know, other, other things.
:
01:28:09,256 --> 01:28:11,046
And you can use it more
like a, as a reference.
:
01:28:11,556 --> 01:28:14,856
If you're new to Bitcoin, all I
wanted to do is introduce the, the
:
01:28:14,886 --> 01:28:17,436
terminology and the links to information.
:
01:28:17,436 --> 01:28:21,056
If you're curious about what it's
so snore singers, how to say it?
:
01:28:21,056 --> 01:28:21,776
Snore signatures.
:
01:28:21,836 --> 01:28:22,196
How do you say it?
:
01:28:22,196 --> 01:28:22,556
Snore.
:
01:28:22,646 --> 01:28:22,976
Schor.
:
01:28:23,096 --> 01:28:23,366
Snore.
:
01:28:24,326 --> 01:28:27,506
I read that, I must've read that thing
multiple times on what those are.
:
01:28:27,511 --> 01:28:28,496
I still couldn't explain.
:
01:28:28,496 --> 01:28:29,756
I'm like, okay, well
I'm gonna get it down.
:
01:28:30,536 --> 01:28:32,936
A couple things on this, and if
anybody's curious about it, I'm gonna
:
01:28:32,936 --> 01:28:34,226
send 'em to the links that I found.
:
01:28:35,006 --> 01:28:39,425
The second half of the, of the,
of the book was just depending
:
01:28:39,425 --> 01:28:41,046
on where your curiosity goes.
:
01:28:41,556 --> 01:28:44,346
You could, I could find the resources
that I had found over the last
:
01:28:44,346 --> 01:28:46,056
couple of years to send people.
:
01:28:46,076 --> 01:28:48,766
So the first, the first half of it
is purely kind of what we've been
:
01:28:48,766 --> 01:28:52,326
talking about, where the mechanics
of the game teach you something.
:
01:28:52,826 --> 01:28:55,936
And then the second half is
really an introduction to kind
:
01:28:55,936 --> 01:28:58,446
of Bitcoin 101 terminology.
:
01:28:58,946 --> 01:29:02,956
Yeah, I like the concept in general
of, uh, you have a game and then
:
01:29:02,956 --> 01:29:04,406
you have a book attached to it.
:
01:29:05,376 --> 01:29:08,056
So it's like really like an
educational first mindset.
:
01:29:08,936 --> 01:29:09,686
With games.
:
01:29:09,756 --> 01:29:10,356
Exactly.
:
01:29:10,566 --> 01:29:10,786
Right.
:
01:29:10,816 --> 01:29:14,196
This is the, this is what I would
have wanted, you know, if not knowing
:
01:29:14,206 --> 01:29:17,596
Bitcoin, if someone had given me a game
and I wanted to play with my kids and
:
01:29:17,596 --> 01:29:22,326
understand and we, we like Talia and I
wanted to teach about it, this would be
:
01:29:22,326 --> 01:29:26,726
the, what I would want as a resource to
go and find the things to, to talk about.
:
01:29:27,386 --> 01:29:31,656
Um, and so it, and sort of like
homeschooling, homeschooling, when
:
01:29:31,656 --> 01:29:34,186
you go back and revisit things
you're teaching your kids, you find
:
01:29:34,186 --> 01:29:35,166
that you learn things you didn't.
:
01:29:35,681 --> 01:29:40,961
You didn't recall from school history
or whatever by going back and trying
:
01:29:40,961 --> 01:29:46,631
to write put those things in writing I
found all the different things that I
:
01:29:46,651 --> 01:29:50,731
thought I knew but didn't really know and
I had to do extra homework So I actually
:
01:29:51,531 --> 01:29:56,996
I actually selfishly learned more by
making it then Even if no one else ever
:
01:29:56,996 --> 01:29:59,386
picks it up, I had to go through it.
:
01:29:59,396 --> 01:30:02,566
It's something about writing it
down forces you to, you have to,
:
01:30:02,606 --> 01:30:05,026
you have to actually think through
what you're, you're, you're writing.
:
01:30:05,026 --> 01:30:11,326
So, um, so I learned a lot, uh, you know,
from that, but my goal is now to share
:
01:30:11,326 --> 01:30:16,175
that with, that you can just say, I have a
friend, the family or, uh, whoever it is,
:
01:30:16,175 --> 01:30:17,866
it could be a school library, whatever.
:
01:30:18,466 --> 01:30:20,206
Here's the book that goes with the game.
:
01:30:20,206 --> 01:30:22,216
It's a pair and.
:
01:30:22,866 --> 01:30:26,216
And now just play and then if you,
you're interested in, as you become
:
01:30:26,216 --> 01:30:30,366
curious about things, this, this is
a place that will send you off to
:
01:30:30,386 --> 01:30:32,336
start your, your rabbit hole journey.
:
01:30:33,866 --> 01:30:36,576
I immediately imagine like going
to Thanksgiving with my family and
:
01:30:36,576 --> 01:30:39,126
just locking them all in a room and
being like, you can't come out until
:
01:30:39,126 --> 01:30:40,636
you understand this, this, and this.
:
01:30:40,636 --> 01:30:43,756
And then just yelling through
the door, what is a hot wallet?
:
01:30:45,175 --> 01:30:47,776
I'm curious what your experience
of the process has been of
:
01:30:47,776 --> 01:30:48,816
this game being designed.
:
01:30:48,816 --> 01:30:49,266
Like, yeah.
:
01:30:50,166 --> 01:30:52,866
So real quick, uh, we have a Bitcoin.
:
01:30:53,441 --> 01:30:55,911
Is the username in, uh, the chat.
:
01:30:55,931 --> 01:30:57,381
If you go to freemarketkids.
:
01:30:57,381 --> 01:30:58,550
com, you can buy the game.
:
01:30:58,741 --> 01:31:01,591
Uh, you can pay with
credit card or Bitcoin.
:
01:31:01,621 --> 01:31:03,821
Bitcoin is accepted if you
go through the prompts.
:
01:31:04,021 --> 01:31:07,721
Uh, you'll, you'll be, you'll be
given an option between paying with
:
01:31:07,721 --> 01:31:08,941
credit card or paying with Bitcoin.
:
01:31:09,101 --> 01:31:10,881
They asked why they
couldn't pay with Bitcoin.
:
01:31:11,411 --> 01:31:12,741
And the game, by the way, is Huddle Up.
:
01:31:12,771 --> 01:31:14,351
There's a couple different
games that are on the website.
:
01:31:14,351 --> 01:31:14,851
It's Huddle Up.
:
01:31:14,911 --> 01:31:15,311
Yeah.
:
01:31:15,951 --> 01:31:17,861
So I'm, I'm thinking
about adding something.
:
01:31:17,951 --> 01:31:21,351
I'm new to building websites, but we'll,
to put something on there on the front.
:
01:31:21,681 --> 01:31:25,101
To set to space, say, Hey,
you can buy it with Bitcoin.
:
01:31:25,101 --> 01:31:27,050
Here's how you do it on there.
:
01:31:27,050 --> 01:31:30,331
And then the second thing to call
out is that the book it's written.
:
01:31:30,401 --> 01:31:33,371
I'm doing the editing phase
now and the formatting so that
:
01:31:33,571 --> 01:31:34,771
I can't ship that out yet.
:
01:31:34,951 --> 01:31:38,976
Probably a month out, maybe six weeks
out from being able to To do that,
:
01:31:38,976 --> 01:31:40,576
the games I have in stock right now.
:
01:31:42,566 --> 01:31:43,686
Getting back to your question, Pete.
:
01:31:43,686 --> 01:31:44,106
Yes.
:
01:31:45,106 --> 01:31:47,936
Scott started talking to me
about Bitcoin a few years ago.
:
01:31:48,086 --> 01:31:51,616
And when he first mentioned
it to me, I put up my hand.
:
01:31:51,616 --> 01:31:53,876
I said, talk to the hand
because I don't have time.
:
01:31:54,206 --> 01:31:55,036
I don't know what it is.
:
01:31:55,076 --> 01:31:56,096
I don't understand it.
:
01:31:56,326 --> 01:31:58,406
I've got other things
I'm trying to finish.
:
01:31:58,416 --> 01:32:00,706
You know, homeschooling the kids
last few years of high school.
:
01:32:00,736 --> 01:32:02,796
I'm like, I can't talk
about this right now.
:
01:32:03,896 --> 01:32:06,736
And then he started creating
this prototype for the game.
:
01:32:07,671 --> 01:32:09,371
And the, and I didn't want to play it.
:
01:32:11,491 --> 01:32:15,041
I really, I was, it just, it was
so, the concept was so foreign.
:
01:32:15,071 --> 01:32:21,121
I can't wrap, I couldn't wrap my
head around the thought that a
:
01:32:21,121 --> 01:32:23,821
string of numbers and letters can.
:
01:32:24,411 --> 01:32:25,021
be money.
:
01:32:25,971 --> 01:32:32,501
And it was through many, um, prototypes
that his brother was so patiently
:
01:32:32,931 --> 01:32:37,550
working on with him that I eventually
started to understand to the point where
:
01:32:37,581 --> 01:32:39,621
I wanted to listen to a book about it.
:
01:32:40,351 --> 01:32:44,300
So the book that I listened
to, uh, was called hard money.
:
01:32:44,300 --> 01:32:45,050
You can't F with.
:
01:32:45,881 --> 01:32:47,571
And by the end of the book, I was sold.
:
01:32:48,231 --> 01:32:50,541
And then his game took
on a whole new meaning.
:
01:32:50,550 --> 01:32:54,721
And I was really trying to understand
it, but if he had not created that
:
01:32:54,721 --> 01:33:01,026
game, I would still be having a really
hard time trying to grasp the concept
:
01:33:01,175 --> 01:33:03,186
of the code and things like that.
:
01:33:03,186 --> 01:33:04,146
I'm just not a techie.
:
01:33:04,506 --> 01:33:04,806
I'm not.
:
01:33:05,516 --> 01:33:10,276
Yeah, so I have found that to be so
helpful because everybody that I talk to
:
01:33:10,286 --> 01:33:15,786
who isn't a BitCorner, who knows about
Bitcoin, their first response to me is,
:
01:33:16,246 --> 01:33:20,286
Oh, I need to learn more about Bitcoin,
but in their mind, it requires hours
:
01:33:20,286 --> 01:33:23,516
and hours of listening to podcasts and
reading books and reading articles and
:
01:33:23,526 --> 01:33:27,146
endless, you know, like a long list of
research that they have to do, like,
:
01:33:27,146 --> 01:33:29,056
but you can understand the fundamentals.
:
01:33:29,086 --> 01:33:30,806
If you play this one board game, it takes.
:
01:33:31,226 --> 01:33:37,886
30 minutes, and then the major part of
Bitcoin will be explained, or at least
:
01:33:37,886 --> 01:33:39,696
you have enough knowledge to go forward.
:
01:33:39,696 --> 01:33:44,776
You have a foundation, a framework
for thinking about it, at least.
:
01:33:45,246 --> 01:33:45,536
Right.
:
01:33:45,656 --> 01:33:49,056
And then you have the book attached
to it if you want to go further,
:
01:33:49,606 --> 01:33:50,516
further down the rabbit hole.
:
01:33:50,526 --> 01:33:50,896
Exactly.
:
01:33:50,896 --> 01:33:55,486
Yeah, that was, that's a good
question though, because.
:
01:33:56,486 --> 01:34:00,156
She doesn't always want to play the
games, and I want to play games a lot, and
:
01:34:00,796 --> 01:34:05,146
there's some tension there, um, but it's,
it's been, it's been kind of a journey,
:
01:34:05,146 --> 01:34:07,896
and now I've gotten her to the point
where she's okay to play a game every
:
01:34:07,896 --> 01:34:11,026
once in a while, so we're getting, we're
getting better, it's like a game therapy.
:
01:34:11,026 --> 01:34:14,835
I mean, this game is literally
a love child, really.
:
01:34:14,916 --> 01:34:16,466
I mean, he, we have poor soul.
:
01:34:17,046 --> 01:34:23,626
Much time and effort into it and I'll
give you an example one time Our youngest
:
01:34:23,646 --> 01:34:27,166
was a home that the three were overseas
and Scott was trying to work out some
:
01:34:28,156 --> 01:34:32,736
Just nuances in the instructions just
the instructions and they had a debate
:
01:34:32,746 --> 01:34:38,556
for an hour That was how seriously
our youngest took the instructions.
:
01:34:38,936 --> 01:34:43,306
They debated over the wording over
the, I think, the first two sentences.
:
01:34:43,306 --> 01:34:47,936
And at the very end of it, both of them
were mad, and they didn't play the game.
:
01:34:49,286 --> 01:34:51,856
You had asked before, like,
your kids, when they could stand
:
01:34:51,856 --> 01:34:52,886
up and think for themselves.
:
01:34:53,166 --> 01:34:55,226
This was at the time, I
think he was, was he 15?
:
01:34:55,276 --> 01:34:55,636
14?
:
01:34:55,636 --> 01:34:56,906
I don't know.
:
01:34:56,906 --> 01:34:58,156
But we argued over it.
:
01:34:58,556 --> 01:35:01,755
And then I'm like, listen,
he's like, why is this?
:
01:35:01,776 --> 01:35:04,636
And I go, well, you know, and then
I found a YouTube video that showed
:
01:35:04,636 --> 01:35:08,096
visually the building of a blockchain.
:
01:35:08,126 --> 01:35:09,956
I go, this, you watch this video.
:
01:35:09,986 --> 01:35:10,746
You have to watch this video.
:
01:35:10,876 --> 01:35:11,626
I don't want to watch this video.
:
01:35:11,666 --> 01:35:17,796
It was, it was, it was, it
was so maddening as a parent.
:
01:35:18,050 --> 01:35:23,151
To, to, to go through that, but if
you, you know, you fast forward, he's
:
01:35:23,151 --> 01:35:24,601
a more technical one in the family.
:
01:35:24,601 --> 01:35:28,251
He actually is the one when you, on the
website, there's a, an explainer video.
:
01:35:28,341 --> 01:35:32,921
I know people want to learn by, by doing
the, the one that I had the argument
:
01:35:32,921 --> 01:35:36,921
with is the one that did the animation on
the ultimately on the how to play video.
:
01:35:37,300 --> 01:35:39,831
So we've, we've come forward.
:
01:35:40,591 --> 01:35:42,130
Yeah, it's a labor of love.
:
01:35:43,281 --> 01:35:46,630
But, but I'm ha I am grateful that
now I can have those conversations
:
01:35:46,630 --> 01:35:50,071
with the kids that without the game
I wouldn't have been able to, so.
:
01:35:50,841 --> 01:35:52,501
Well, you can see it in the final product.
:
01:35:52,561 --> 01:35:54,511
There was a lot of love
that went into it, clearly.
:
01:35:54,960 --> 01:35:56,281
And a lot of care and thought.
:
01:35:56,901 --> 01:36:03,706
Um, I mean, Scott asked me for my
feedback, but he also told me After he
:
01:36:03,706 --> 01:36:07,186
asked me for his feedback that he had
already made 500 versions of the game.
:
01:36:07,346 --> 01:36:09,925
So, um, I'm glad you nailed it.
:
01:36:11,476 --> 01:36:12,466
There could be an addition too.
:
01:36:13,536 --> 01:36:17,696
I told Scott that for his future games,
I expect to be brought into the feedback
:
01:36:17,696 --> 01:36:19,906
process before the game is ready.
:
01:36:19,906 --> 01:36:23,966
I will say publicly, I commit to
bringing you things ahead of time.
:
01:36:23,966 --> 01:36:30,691
No, but yeah, you, uh, yeah, I can't speak
highly enough of this game and, uh, The
:
01:36:30,691 --> 01:36:34,021
freaks, the audience should, you guys
should consider going out and buying it.
:
01:36:34,050 --> 01:36:37,161
You can pay with Bitcoin, like I said,
or credit card free market, kids.
:
01:36:37,341 --> 01:36:37,811
com.
:
01:36:38,300 --> 01:36:42,356
Um, I joke about it being printed,
but there will be, you know,
:
01:36:42,696 --> 01:36:45,236
follow on versions of the game,
different versions and stuff.
:
01:36:45,236 --> 01:36:48,546
So, Scott is happy to, he
would love feedback, right?
:
01:36:48,906 --> 01:36:50,046
I love feedback.
:
01:36:50,046 --> 01:36:53,046
He took the feedback very
well, that I gave him.
:
01:36:53,656 --> 01:36:55,806
That's actually in the book, if
I can interrupt you real quick.
:
01:36:55,806 --> 01:36:59,425
I actually write saying, hey listen,
if something's not right in this
:
01:36:59,616 --> 01:37:04,511
book, I own it, but this is sort
of like open source learning.
:
01:37:04,901 --> 01:37:05,201
Right.
:
01:37:05,201 --> 01:37:08,341
I, my ask is tell me where I got it wrong.
:
01:37:08,351 --> 01:37:08,541
Right.
:
01:37:08,541 --> 01:37:11,331
There'll be V2s of the
book and digital versions.
:
01:37:11,331 --> 01:37:13,141
And yeah, cause I want to get
better and I want to give up.
:
01:37:13,766 --> 01:37:14,486
Good information.
:
01:37:14,486 --> 01:37:18,585
So I really, really do
welcome advice and feedback.
:
01:37:19,346 --> 01:37:21,566
And, uh, if you go to Bitcoinpark.
:
01:37:21,616 --> 01:37:28,755
co and join our meetup group, you will
get notified when we do the game nights.
:
01:37:28,755 --> 01:37:30,835
There's going to be multiple
game nights at Bitcoin Park
:
01:37:30,835 --> 01:37:32,106
that I'm looking forward to.
:
01:37:34,851 --> 01:37:35,421
What else?
:
01:37:35,791 --> 01:37:36,491
P is going to play.
:
01:37:37,001 --> 01:37:38,731
P is going to play, I will.
:
01:37:39,241 --> 01:37:41,441
We're going to lock him in a room and tell
him he can't have dinner until he plays.
:
01:37:42,351 --> 01:37:44,791
Based on his own strategy with
his family that he disclosed.
:
01:37:44,791 --> 01:37:46,421
I tell you, watch out when
you play against Matt.
:
01:37:46,421 --> 01:37:48,781
I'm excited.
:
01:37:49,411 --> 01:37:52,431
And I can't believe he beat you at your
own game, which is a measure in my mind.
:
01:37:52,441 --> 01:37:55,210
Never got, I've never gotten to
play a founder at his own game too.
:
01:37:55,221 --> 01:38:00,335
That was, yeah, I was, I was actually,
when we, Thought about doing the podcast.
:
01:38:00,366 --> 01:38:02,366
I was like, how long before this comes up?
:
01:38:03,616 --> 01:38:05,306
And it was very proud of it.
:
01:38:05,556 --> 01:38:10,606
I'm more proud of the fact that I caught,
so like the way it works is there's a
:
01:38:10,606 --> 01:38:17,226
difficulty adjustment and, um, and you
draw cards and like the number on your
:
01:38:17,226 --> 01:38:22,661
cards, whether or not you collect Bitcoin
or not is based on, um, If, if the
:
01:38:22,661 --> 01:38:26,380
numbers add up to under the difficulty
adjustment, it's a really cool mechanism.
:
01:38:27,011 --> 01:38:31,171
And, uh, Scott put his cards on the
table and then went to grab some Bitcoin.
:
01:38:31,171 --> 01:38:34,471
And I was like, I was like, Scott,
that, that doesn't add up to
:
01:38:34,471 --> 01:38:37,701
below the, he literally tried to
grab some Bitcoin from the board.
:
01:38:37,701 --> 01:38:39,241
Tried to pull one over on you.
:
01:38:39,241 --> 01:38:39,821
I caught him.
:
01:38:40,246 --> 01:38:41,734
I caught him, so don't trust Verify.
:
01:38:41,734 --> 01:38:42,916
Don't trust Verify.
:
01:38:42,986 --> 01:38:44,456
That is better than beating him.
:
01:38:44,496 --> 01:38:45,596
That is so much better.
:
01:38:45,606 --> 01:38:48,886
That I, that I was actually, there
was proof in the pudding that
:
01:38:48,886 --> 01:38:51,766
I was paying attention, I was
completely competitive, and I was
:
01:38:51,776 --> 01:38:53,266
not gonna let him get away with it.
:
01:38:53,716 --> 01:38:55,876
I also, like, I just think it's
such a ringing endorsement.
:
01:38:55,876 --> 01:38:58,326
I mean, people come up to you and want
to talk to you about Bitcoin and the
:
01:38:58,326 --> 01:38:59,706
products they're making all the time.
:
01:38:59,706 --> 01:39:01,996
So for this to be the game that
you're like, this is the best
:
01:39:01,996 --> 01:39:03,376
one, I mean, you must have played.
:
01:39:03,376 --> 01:39:04,496
It's the best one so far.
:
01:39:04,566 --> 01:39:04,826
Oh.
:
01:39:05,416 --> 01:39:08,036
It's a challenge to the audience and
to Scott to build even better ones.
:
01:39:08,066 --> 01:39:08,656
Gotta build more.
:
01:39:08,956 --> 01:39:10,085
You should make a shitcoin version.
:
01:39:10,166 --> 01:39:11,816
That's like, this is
why everything's broken.
:
01:39:11,886 --> 01:39:14,335
There, there, you, you joke about
that, but I actually had some
:
01:39:14,726 --> 01:39:16,126
ideas, so you and I should talk.
:
01:39:16,486 --> 01:39:18,186
I mean, I think it could, I
think it could be interesting.
:
01:39:18,186 --> 01:39:21,106
Like, here's why you never want
to fuck with any of this nonsense.
:
01:39:21,106 --> 01:39:22,306
FTX, the game.
:
01:39:22,356 --> 01:39:25,456
No, no, I mean, like, I don't know, I
think, or like, Just everyone gets rug
:
01:39:25,456 --> 01:39:26,716
pulled, there's no winning the game.
:
01:39:26,846 --> 01:39:27,526
No, that's what I mean.
:
01:39:27,556 --> 01:39:30,046
Or like, like a modification that
you could buy, where like, it
:
01:39:30,046 --> 01:39:32,776
like, adds on to the existing game,
and then the only answer is like,
:
01:39:32,816 --> 01:39:34,126
SBF steals, steals everything.
:
01:39:35,646 --> 01:39:37,116
And then he goes losing a
mansion in a couple more days.
:
01:39:37,425 --> 01:39:37,736
Yeah.
:
01:39:39,066 --> 01:39:42,166
Um, this has been, this
has been fantastic.
:
01:39:42,166 --> 01:39:44,066
I appreciate, I appreciate you all.
:
01:39:44,246 --> 01:39:47,616
And, um, this has been a
really great conversation.
:
01:39:48,276 --> 01:39:53,786
Uh, before, before we wrap up here,
I'd like to finish with final thoughts.
:
01:39:54,826 --> 01:39:58,585
Um, final thoughts, Scott, hit us.
:
01:39:58,846 --> 01:40:03,186
Uh, the thing that's on my mind is just,
is just, I go back to the, the gratitude.
:
01:40:03,206 --> 01:40:05,776
I, it's really difficult
to put into words.
:
01:40:06,571 --> 01:40:10,261
Like how much I think you, what you
guys are building here, like, I don't,
:
01:40:10,981 --> 01:40:13,981
I really, I do, I actually struggle
with trying to, to express that.
:
01:40:14,041 --> 01:40:18,451
And, um, when I tell others saying, you
know, or I told you about the Lexington
:
01:40:18,451 --> 01:40:22,880
meetup and other things, I'm like,
you guys have to get to Bitcoin Park.
:
01:40:22,880 --> 01:40:23,741
You have to get there.
:
01:40:23,741 --> 01:40:29,931
And I'm trying to get other friends that
live in faraway places to join as well.
:
01:40:30,491 --> 01:40:34,901
Um, I'm just, I just, it's, it's
really amazing and if anybody hasn't
:
01:40:34,906 --> 01:40:38,261
been like, it's until you experience
it, I don't think you get it.
:
01:40:38,261 --> 01:40:45,901
And for you guys, I think, um, you,
you have, you have access to a lot
:
01:40:45,901 --> 01:40:50,880
of other people who already get it
when you're, when you're, you know,
:
01:40:50,941 --> 01:40:54,701
in your, on your own, in the, on a,
with your family or your friends,
:
01:40:54,761 --> 01:40:56,261
you're like on an, on an island.
:
01:40:56,651 --> 01:41:01,001
And there's just something about
being able to be around people
:
01:41:01,001 --> 01:41:02,866
who, who, um, who kind of.
:
01:41:03,441 --> 01:41:04,591
Get it as well.
:
01:41:04,731 --> 01:41:08,941
And so I just, I just, and my final
thought is just amazing gratitude for
:
01:41:08,941 --> 01:41:10,471
what you guys are, are building here.
:
01:41:11,421 --> 01:41:11,951
Thanks Scott.
:
01:41:11,951 --> 01:41:15,611
This is a really special
place, really special.
:
01:41:16,191 --> 01:41:17,771
There's such a wonderful vibe here.
:
01:41:18,300 --> 01:41:22,041
And everybody here is
here to learn and share.
:
01:41:22,681 --> 01:41:24,251
And that's really, really amazing.
:
01:41:24,251 --> 01:41:29,056
I wanted to just tell your audience if
anybody's thinking about homeschooling.
:
01:41:30,106 --> 01:41:30,906
Don't be afraid.
:
01:41:31,386 --> 01:41:33,026
There are so many resources out there.
:
01:41:33,516 --> 01:41:38,706
And if any of you have
questions, um, at freemarketkids.
:
01:41:38,706 --> 01:41:41,036
com, there's a contact
us button on the bottom.
:
01:41:41,126 --> 01:41:42,066
Shoot me an email.
:
01:41:42,486 --> 01:41:45,916
I am so happy to answer any questions
that anybody has about homeschooling.
:
01:41:46,296 --> 01:41:47,005
That's my part.
:
01:41:47,386 --> 01:41:48,356
That's my specialty.
:
01:41:48,925 --> 01:41:49,466
So, yeah.
:
01:41:49,696 --> 01:41:50,996
Self custody or education.
:
01:41:50,996 --> 01:41:51,675
Awesome.
:
01:41:52,596 --> 01:41:53,496
Well, thank you both.
:
01:41:53,656 --> 01:41:57,376
And I guess if, if you're a web
dev out there listening to like
:
01:41:57,376 --> 01:41:59,976
hit that contact form, it sounds
like Scott could use some help.
:
01:42:01,566 --> 01:42:04,186
I've proved how little technical skills.
:
01:42:04,246 --> 01:42:05,726
You got Bitcoin support up there.
:
01:42:06,106 --> 01:42:09,126
We explained, we explained to Scott
before the show started how to
:
01:42:09,206 --> 01:42:10,736
click retweet on the live stream.
:
01:42:10,736 --> 01:42:11,066
So.
:
01:42:11,846 --> 01:42:13,476
Um, we're getting there.
:
01:42:14,186 --> 01:42:15,416
Um, I want to thank you both.
:
01:42:15,416 --> 01:42:16,516
Thank you for coming.
:
01:42:16,646 --> 01:42:17,746
Thank you for joining.
:
01:42:18,486 --> 01:42:19,175
Thank you, Matt.
:
01:42:19,346 --> 01:42:20,416
Thank you for being you.
:
01:42:20,416 --> 01:42:23,026
And it's just been a pleasure to meet
you guys and get to know you guys.
:
01:42:23,026 --> 01:42:28,986
And, and I look forward to, uh, this
relationship blossoming over the Over
:
01:42:28,986 --> 01:42:32,476
the future, we have to give, we have to
give P final thoughts, P final thoughts.
:
01:42:32,626 --> 01:42:37,925
Oh, I just, uh, we talk a lot about
taking radical personal responsibility.
:
01:42:38,276 --> 01:42:40,516
You just said huddle, you know, I
think you said huddle your education.
:
01:42:40,536 --> 01:42:43,546
I think that it's really awesome
to have a conversation with
:
01:42:43,556 --> 01:42:46,085
people who have taken that idea.
:
01:42:46,116 --> 01:42:49,916
We talk about it a lot with regard to
finance and I love the idea of extending
:
01:42:49,916 --> 01:42:51,696
that to multiple areas of your life.
:
01:42:52,046 --> 01:42:54,796
And I can't think of a more
important one than how you
:
01:42:54,826 --> 01:42:56,206
choose to educate your children.
:
01:42:56,216 --> 01:43:02,026
So I would love to see even more people
Taking radical personal responsibility
:
01:43:02,036 --> 01:43:03,996
for major aspects of their life.
:
01:43:05,146 --> 01:43:05,406
Yeah.
:
01:43:05,526 --> 01:43:06,126
Awesome.
:
01:43:06,476 --> 01:43:08,886
Well, thank you freaks for joining us.
:
01:43:09,286 --> 01:43:09,746
Thank you.
:
01:43:09,766 --> 01:43:13,296
Huge shout out to the freaks who joined
us short notice in the live chat.
:
01:43:13,726 --> 01:43:18,286
RDBTC, Bitcoin, uh, who else joined us?
:
01:43:19,016 --> 01:43:21,085
There was few, but there was dozens of us.
:
01:43:21,085 --> 01:43:21,816
It was great.
:
01:43:21,966 --> 01:43:24,096
Uh, Max Trotter, Jay pleb.
:
01:43:24,096 --> 01:43:25,326
Thank you guys for joining us.
:
01:43:25,696 --> 01:43:28,126
Huge shout out to the freaks who
continue to support the show.
:
01:43:28,886 --> 01:43:30,026
We don't have ads.
:
01:43:30,776 --> 01:43:34,196
So our sponsors can't rug you by
design because you are the sponsors.
:
01:43:34,246 --> 01:43:37,266
So thank you for supporting the show
with your sats, with your Bitcoin.
:
01:43:37,666 --> 01:43:39,246
All the links are at sealedispatch.
:
01:43:39,286 --> 01:43:41,776
com, available on all podcast apps.
:
01:43:41,835 --> 01:43:44,496
Once again, this is going to be
a very big week for Dispatch.
:
01:43:45,096 --> 01:43:48,726
Um, got some great conversations lined
up and also have some conversations
:
01:43:48,726 --> 01:43:51,546
that will probably be on Dispatch
that I'm not expecting yet.
:
01:43:51,556 --> 01:43:53,476
So I'm excited for that.
:
01:43:53,856 --> 01:43:56,526
Um, if any of you are in the
Nashville area, consider coming
:
01:43:56,526 --> 01:43:58,066
down to Bitcoin Park this week.
:
01:43:58,596 --> 01:44:02,675
Um, or even if you're three to five hours
away, just jump in the car, drive down.
:
01:44:03,216 --> 01:44:04,076
More the merrier.
:
01:44:04,085 --> 01:44:04,886
We'd love to meet you.
:
01:44:04,916 --> 01:44:05,835
We'd love to see you.
:
01:44:06,616 --> 01:44:10,016
And, uh, yeah, appreciate you, Phreak.
:
01:44:10,026 --> 01:44:11,085
Stay humble, stack sets.
:
01:44:11,335 --> 01:44:11,726
Cheers.
:
01:44:11,866 --> 01:44:12,416
Thanks, guys.
:
01:44:12,706 --> 01:44:13,005
Thank you.