Episode 1

₿HS001: Genesis episode

SHOW TOPIC:

Tali and Scott's conversation covers why homeschooling isn't just a choice of curriculum or textbooks. Taking self-custody of education is a commitment to understanding, nurturing, and building relationships that last a lifetime.

IN THIS EPISODE, YOU'LL LEARN:

  • Tali and Scott's inspiration for homeschooling
  • Their inspiration for serving the Bitcoin community with lessons learned, recommended resources and interviews of other Bitcoin-homeschoolers (i.e., the reason for this podcast)
  • Learning goes way beyond books
  • Asymmetric upside potential for your kids (let them excel!)
  • Limited downside risk (kids are resilient)
  • You have SO MANY resources within this community
  • Commitment is the first step
  • Help make this more valuable ... What do you want to learn about homeschooling?

RESOURCES MENTIONED IN THE SHOW:

HAPPY TO HELP:

  • Tali's Twitter @OrangeHatterPod
  • Scott's Twitter @ScottLindberg93
  • Scott's nostr npub19jkuyl0wgrj8kccqzh2vnseeql9v98ptrx407ca9qjsrr4x5j9tsnxx0q6
  • Free Market Kids' Twitter @FreeMarketKids
  • Orange Pill App @FreeMarketKids
  • Free Market Kids' games including HODL UP https://www.freemarketkids.com/collections/games
Transcript
Scott:

Welcome everyone.

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This is the Genesis podcast

of Bitcoin homeschoolers.

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My name is Scott.

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My lovely wife Tali is here

with me and we're very excited

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to kick off this podcast.

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We are here to serve you.

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If you're considering homeschooling,

you're already homeschooling,

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even if you just want to find

some supplemental material for,

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your kids that might be in

public or private school.

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This podcast is going to be for you.

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We'll do a quick introduction

today because it's our first one.

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I'd like to cover the

inspiration for what got us here.

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There's certainly countless people

over the last two decades and four

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kids going through this homeschooling

adventure and it's time for us

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to give back and help others.

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So bitcoiners and homeschoolers in my

mind have a lot of the same core values.

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This is something that's a, it's

a cause bigger than ourselves.

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It's a lot about freedom, human

flourishing, especially for our families.

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So we'll go through that.

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We'll do that today and we'll wrap

up with a couple of recommendations.

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Tali, anything else that you'd

like to add for the intro?

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Tali: Hi everybody, this is Tali

and I'm excited to share lessons

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from our homeschooling journey

over the last two decades.

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It's interesting looking back from

a distance now over what we have

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tried, what we have witnessed, what we

have observed through the many moves

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that we made during our homeschooling

journey, which allowed us to

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look at a lot of different

approaches from different families.

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And we have a pretty wide database of

do's and don'ts to draw from that we would

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love to share with you going forward.

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Scott: Great.

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All right, let's just hit it off.

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I'll start.

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I'm, I consider myself a Midwest guy.

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I spent my formative years in Northeast

Ohio and went to West Point and

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afterwards spent five years in the army.

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And to me, that's important because

that's probably where if I had to

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go back, where the idea of serving a

bigger cause really was crystallized.

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After I got out, went to business

school and Tali and I met at

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Yale school of management.

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And I'm very proud to say I

successfully derailed her and all of her

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aspirations to be an investment banker.

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And she's the one that actually

led us down the homeschooling path.

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So I think, let me just touch on

it from my point of view, but the

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story is more interesting from hers.

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Homeschooling it's a couple of things.

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One, you're pursuing things

that are really good.

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If you're, if your child can accelerate

in one area or another, you can just

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let them take that area and really grow

it also from the Bitcoin standpoint.

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You can teach about money and

other topics that are just

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not taught in public schools.

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The second thing though, is

you can avoid bad things.

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A lot of things in the news about woke

political agendas and a state that

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really wants to control your kids.

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I find that it's really disgusting

that others think that they can take

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over your, your kids development.

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I just, I just find that appalling.

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So, you bring those two together

and you have this asymmetric upside

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because kids are really resilient.

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So if you, if you have any fear, you're

thinking about homeschooling and you

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think, what if, what if I can't do it?

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What if I'm not good enough?

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Let me just tell you in

the absolute worst case.

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You're a child can go back to

a public or private school and

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they, they will be just fine.

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But I'm here to tell you, you can't fail.

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There is so much support available

in this community that it is,

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and there's so many resources.

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And, and honestly, it's, this

is what people have been doing.

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People were schooling their kids

long before government came along.

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So You can't fail.

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To me, this is all about taking

self custody of education.

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It is absolutely worth the hard work.

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The opportunity cost of those lost

wages is nothing compared to the payoff.

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Just like in Bitcoin, it is worth

the energy used to, mine it.

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But now for the more interesting story.

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Tali, I want you to kind of tell them

how we kicked off our homeschooling.

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Tali: Okay, so you don't

want me to talk about...

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why we homeschooled.

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Scott: Yeah, go ahead.

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I mean that to me, that's part of it.

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Tali: Okay.

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So I'm going to go back pretty far.

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Scott and I both have gone through our

schooling through brand name schools.

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And in high school I went to a

science and technology magnet school.

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That was pretty tough to get in

and I was working with students who

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were all just super, super smart.

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From there went to University of Virginia.

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And then from there, of course, he

just mentioned we went to Yale School

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of Management, but the whole time I

had this nagging feeling that Even

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though I had these brand name diplomas

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I did not feel that I was well educated.

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Fast forward to when we had our kids and

it was sort of by accident that I heard

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about homeschooling in the first place.

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We were coming out of church

service one day, our oldest

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was only about two years old.

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And in passing, we were chatting

with a mom and she mentioned that

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she homeschooled her two daughters.

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And I, at the time, I didn't even

know that that was an option.

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I didn't know it was a thing.

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And the only response I could think of to

ask her as a follow up was, were you a

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teacher before you decided you wanted to

homeschool your girls and she said yes

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She was a school teacher and I said aha.

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Well, of course, that's why she

can homeschool because she was

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originally trained as a teacher I

didn't really think too much

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about it a few months later.

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We were at a playdate and our

friend's neighbor came over

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and with her nine year old son.

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And we were chatting and she

said, Oh, my son learned how to

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read when he was nine months old.

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I was floored.

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I didn't think that was possible.

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Like how do you even test a baby

to see if the baby can read a word

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that you show to the baby, right?

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They're not even really talking yet.

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So she showed me this book called how

to teach your baby to read and flip

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through the page where they were showing

the different kinds of flashcards that

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you would Basically flash in front of

your baby's face at regular intervals

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throughout the day to teach your baby to

read And then she said oh and by the way

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We homeschool so that he can accelerate at

the pace that he needs to accelerate and I

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said well Were you also a school teacher?

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She wasn't and I said, I don't even

know where to begin I don't even know

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how to evaluate my options and this

was A long time ago, before podcast,

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before YouTube, and our only resources

were each other or printed books.

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And so she showed me her book

and it was called Mary Pride's

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Big Book on Homeschooling.

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And it was the size of a phone

book for those of you who remember

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those . And I brought it home

and I flipped through from.

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From beginning to end, it was

pre K all the way through high

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school graduation, and I had a

framework that was built for me.

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I didn't realize there were different

curriculums to choose from, so

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I just had a really wonderful

overview of the whole process, and I

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thought, wow, that sounds plausible.

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Like, we can actually do this

because somebody had laid out

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a roadmap, even though it was

in this giant phone book form.

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And I, of course, read her book that

she lent to me called How to teach

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your baby to read and in it the author

described the process and the window,

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actually the window to teach to your

child in that way, in the way that

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he described ended at 36 months old.

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And I was very alarmed because

our oldest was already.

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30 months old.

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And I thought I was running out of time.

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I'm like, Oh my gosh, we

were running out of time.

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Our two and a half year old is

almost not going to be able to

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learn how to read using this method.

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So I woke up Scott and I

said, I can't believe it.

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We're already too late and

we're running out of time.

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But that's how we started

the whole process.

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Scott: Yeah.

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The only thing I could, add

to that is We basically, we,

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we made a commitment together.

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We didn't know exactly what we were

doing, but the first step is to commit and

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then have the courage to follow through.

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And we basically had it as I recall a

discussion that if we could get by with

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one income and give up maybe vacations or

a larger house or something that we were

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committed to make this to make this work.

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So that was a, , you know, the, i

I, I was not worried that Brianna

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could not read at two and a half.

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That was not my concern.

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But this was something Tali was clearly

passionate about trying, and to me,

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the, the big step was to commit.

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I, think we should, jump from there.

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Let's, like, fast forward 20, 22

years and let's connect this with,

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with Bitcoin . The reason that this

podcast is called Bitcoin homeschoolers

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again, is there's a tremendous

amount of overlap between the way

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homeschoolers think and Bitcoiners think.

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And it was only, I think nine months

ago is January when Matt Odell asked us

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to be on his Citadel dispatch podcast

specifically to talk about homeschooling.

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And just a couple of months prior to

that, Tali and I had never even met

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anybody who was in the Bitcoin space.

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So first of all, hats off to the

people at Bitcoin park, because

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literally, anybody is welcome there.

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And it was just amazing.

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It has made all the difference

in the world for us in terms of.

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Having the courage to take

additional steps down the

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Bitcoin, down the Bitcoin path.

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From there we thought we would go to

homeschooling conferences and we went

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to a couple this year, but we didn't get

a great reception and it was a little

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Well, mind boggling to me, because

there's so much overlap, but again,

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we had two homeschooling conferences,

neither one really, really was like,

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Oh my gosh, where have you been?

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Bitcoiners.

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However, we've had additional

Bitcoiners that loved homeschooling.

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So we talked to Daniel

Prince on Once Bitten.

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I had the opportunity to talk to Shane

Hazel on his personal podcast and it's

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just, it was like Bitcoiners were on fire.

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, the tipping point really happened

just in the last couple of weeks, Elly

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Pembroke and her husband Asher invited

us to participate in a homeschooling

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panel, at tab conf in Atlanta.

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And we just had a, we just loved it.

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We spent an hour talking.

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Shane Hazel was actually there as well.

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It was, it was just really wonderful.

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This is a spark that led to this podcast.

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We had 20 plus years of homeschooling

and now we're, trying to grow our own

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Bitcoin business focus on education.

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And so many people are excited about

the subject of homeschooling that

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I'm like, Tali, we got to do this.

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We just gotta, we just, this isn't

the, this is the next big step for us.

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All right.

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So Tali, what do you, what's

your point of view on this?

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Tali: Well, There were a lot of lessons

that we learned over the last 20 so or so

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years what homeschooling podcast you mean?

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Scott: Well I'm just saying we're

here growing free market kids.

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We're, we're focused on money

education, Bitcoin in particular, and

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it doesn't have to be homeschooling,

but it's about education, the

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intersection of Bitcoin and education.

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And there's a lot to do to, to try

to just get a business up and going.

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So why in the world will

we start a whole podcast?

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And for, for me, it's exciting because

it connects the dots based on these,

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the panel based on, The reception

we have when we talk to people and

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people coming up to us and asking us

questions there's a lot of people who

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are thinking about homeschooling in the

Bitcoin community and this is going

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back to earlier in the conversation.

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This is an opportunity

where we can give back.

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I can't give back in terms of

technical advice on Wallets

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and coding that's not me Right.

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I can't give financial advice.

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I mean, I like to study economics,

but I, I'm, that's not, I'm not, there

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are others who are much further along

in that, but you and I have have over

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two decades of experience in this

area and it just feels like this is

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our way of being able to contribute

to the, to the Bitcoin community.

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Tali: Yeah, I agree with that.

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Because we have had a lot of people

talk to us, even people who don't have

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children yet, and some of them are not

even married yet, but they are so excited

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about the prospect of homeschooling that

that they're asking us Lots of questions.

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And homeschooling sounds like a

very long journey because you're

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looking for, you're like, Oh my gosh,

my child or my unborn child, this

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is, this is an 18 year process.

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And it is, but I don't think that

we need to look so, so long term,

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because a lot of it is literally

just putting one foot in front of

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the other and constantly reevaluating

what's working and what's not working.

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And The honest truth is you think you're

in charge and you gotta figure everything

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out right now, but you really don't.

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Your child plays a very big part in this.

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I call it the 51 49 split.

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, you don't want to be 100 percent

controlling every decision under the

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sun regarding homeschooling because then

your child would feel slightly oppressed

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and maybe a little bit withdrawn,

but you also don't want to give a

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hundred percent control over children.

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So 100 type of setup where the child

does whatever he wants, because there

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is still a part to play for the parents

to set boundaries because we still

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have wisdom, in this world and how

the society functions and everything.

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So the 51 49 split is basically my way

of describing a really healthy I don't

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want to call it power structure, but.

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Contribution, contribution structure.

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Your child is giving you

feedback, you know, like, for

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example, let's just get concrete.

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If you think it's time for your

child to start learning the alphabet

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and you're sitting your kid

down and you're like, this is A.

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Well, if your kid is literally

not able to sit down that long

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yet, That's your feedback.

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And maybe you need to try a different way.

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Maybe you don't, do the formal sort

of sit down, be quiet and listen

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to me teach you kind of thing, but

maybe, , mix it up a little bit and

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do it outside when they're on the

playground and say, Hey, draw me an A.

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Concentrate on the sand.

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Go get a stick and draw it in the sand.

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This is an A.

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and if their attention span allows

them to give you two minutes of focused

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attention then that's what you take and

you don't try to push forward, right?

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So, you're letting the child give

you feedback, everyone initiates

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and the child is giving you

feedback and you constantly adjust.

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I think that is A.

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Really healthy way of

looking at this process.

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The 5149 split,

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Scott: right?

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No, I mean that's and everybody just

just so you know that that's our take

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on it It's it you're gonna have to find

your own mix and I think that's the

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beautiful part about homeschooling is

if you want it to be a hundred or zero

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or zero one hundred or Anywhere on that

spectrum this is this is your choice

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This is it's sort of permissionless if

you're if you're doing this as a parent

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You don't need my permission or the

state's permission or anyone else's.

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This just happens to be our point of view.

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And that balance worked for us, but I

would just like to point out for anybody

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who's in that early stage and they're

trying to think, is this right or not?

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The beautiful part is they get to

decide like no one, no one forced

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us to do what you just said.

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That was.

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That was just what we pursued and so just

want to highlight the flexibility You

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have as a parent to do what you think

is right for your For your kids and it

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can even adjust within the kids right,

maybe one student learns a certain way

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and needs more structure and Another

student is very self motivated and even

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within a family you can vary that So I

just you know, I don't want anybody to

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think that we're saying these things

that we're saying that you have to be

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this way We're just sharing what worked

for us And I wanted to point out that,

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Hey, you can do this anyway you want.

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I, I can't stop you from teaching

your kids the way you want to teach.

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Just like I can't stop anybody

from using or not using Bitcoin.

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I

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Tali: know.

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But I think for some people who are

coming in with no knowledge of how to go

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forward, I maintain my recommendation.

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It should be a 5149 split.

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But before you even think about

homeschooling one of the, the main

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takeaways that I saw, , over the

last 20 years is you got to get

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the power structure right between

you and the your child or children

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because a lot of homeschoolers end

up quitting homeschooling at the

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end of elementary school because

they can't get their children to do

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what they believe they should do.

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Scott: Maybe that I, I think

maybe this, that's too much.

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Well, no, no, no.

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It's actually, what's interesting

about this is I think we.

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This is where we, we need to start

to transition and ask others for

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what they want to hear about.

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If other people are interested and

this is listeners, this is, this

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is where we need your feedback.

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If you're considering homeschooling,

you're already homeschooling, or maybe

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you're just doing the supplemental

thing for your, your kids when

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they come back from public school.

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We need to know , what

it is that you want.

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, let's list this as a subject and

we'll go really deep on setting

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that up as a subject someday.

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Maybe it's not right for today as

an introduction, but I think it's

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certainly a topic that for people

who are listening to you say that.

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They're like, okay, I would, if

that's important, I need to work that

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out with my, my significant other.

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What have you learned?

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I think some people would want to know.

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So just so everybody knows, let me let

me use that as a, as a way to say what

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Tali and I hope to do on this as we're,

as we're learning how to do a podcast

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and adjust this to what you want.

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Some of the things that were

on our mind were , let's share

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things that we've learned.

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Maybe some funny.

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Not so funny stories along the way.

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Let's share some resources.

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Not all of these are going

to be what you expect.

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A lot of homeschooling is not just

the reading, writing, arithmetic type.

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There's a lot of other things to, to

get into so we can share resources and

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of course bring others who the Bitcoin

homeschooling space onto the show.

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So you get some different points of view.

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I think that is actually a good

thing we're all in this together.

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We're all collaborating.

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It's not quite the same as free and open

source software, but we're all working

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on education together and hearing other

people's points of view and how we're

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doing this, I think is pretty valuable.

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So long, long way of saying,

let's put that discussion on as

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one of our subjects to deep dive.

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Tali: Do you want me to respond to that?

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Scott: Yeah, this is a discussion,

of course I want you to respond.

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Tali: Yeah.

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Yeah, definitely.

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Let's, let's dive in subject by subject.

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We, did you mute me?

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Scott: No, I didn't.

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Oh, if you would like

to go deep on it now.

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No,

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Tali: we don't have to go ahead.

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No, no, we don't have to go deep.

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I, I, I was just basically

following my train of thought.

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Just if, if you're coming in brand

new, you don't know what's available.

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You don't know what it involves.

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And how huge the scope is, if you're

looking very long term, just know that

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it is more of a constant reevaluation,

pivot, pivot, pivot, pivot kind

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of process versus a straight line.

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It's not K to 12 in a straight

line, everything preset,

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everything predetermined.

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Everything prearranged.

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That's not the way it's going to happen.

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It has, it's not the way

it happens for most people.

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And going back to Scott's point

about how , you can plan things

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out, but it may not work the same

way with one child versus another.

363

:

And we also know families who have

one child in public, one child in

364

:

Private, , one child homeschooled and then

another one literally doing it online.

365

:

So Depending on the child's personality

depending on your needs depending on

366

:

the nuances of their learning styles

There's not one right answer for every

367

:

single child and certainly not one

right answer for every single family

368

:

Scott: Right.

369

:

So, so one of the things that I wanted

to, to get out today is I'm looking at

370

:

this from almost a game theory standpoint.

371

:

This is something that's bigger than us.

372

:

We're playing an infinite game and

educating our children is, is certainly

373

:

a cause bigger than just ourselves.

374

:

This is something that's going to outlast.

375

:

It's going to last generations.

376

:

It is a huge responsibility

and a huge impact.

377

:

And it's just something that's, it's

very personal, but it's also Something

378

:

I just want others to, to kind of

think of it as a, from that game theory

379

:

standpoint of this is an infinite game.

380

:

This isn't like when those

things you win or lose, you were

381

:

successful or not successful.

382

:

Did you do a good job or not do a

good job with, with the education

383

:

of your, of your children?

384

:

This is something that literally

is going to go on forever.

385

:

We're still, even as a, even

though our kids are adults.

386

:

We're still learning and

we're still parenting and it's

387

:

just going to continue on.

388

:

And then that's when they have

kids, it'll continue way past us.

389

:

Tali: Okay.

390

:

So see, you're all altruistic

and thinking big picture.

391

:

And for me, I did it for very selfish

reasons and I'm sharing lessons with

392

:

you for very selfish reasons because for

our next generation to succeed, I think.

393

:

Personally, that the most important

thing children need to realize is that

394

:

their parents care and that they count.

395

:

And if you decide to homeschool,

and you're devoting time and

396

:

attention on your child, even if,

, hypothetically, that academically,

397

:

you don't achieve some super high

level, let's say, if that's your goal.

398

:

But.

399

:

The day to day interactions that you

have with your children were healthy.

400

:

And they fully recognize that

you are devoted to them and

401

:

you want what's best for them.

402

:

I think that covers a lot of possible

mistakes that you might make in

403

:

the process because Scott and I

for sure made a ton of mistakes.

404

:

I always feel bad for my firstborn,

especially because she bore the

405

:

brunt of me not knowing what the

heck I was doing and just trying.

406

:

stuff out on her.

407

:

So I have apologized to her numerous times

before being my test subject, but the

408

:

entire time she knew that we, we cared and

we were, whatever mistakes we were making,

409

:

we thought we were doing what was right.

410

:

I just want to say that because.

411

:

This is not a, this is not like a like

a, like a test, , there's no, there's

412

:

no grade that you need to meet, whatever

the school system has trained you up

413

:

to think, everything is evaluated

with the letters a, b, c, d, but.

414

:

In my mind, a successful homeschooling

experience means that your, your children

415

:

grew up knowing you cared means that

they grew up with you being involved in

416

:

their lives and they were prepared for

adulthood and that can look different

417

:

for everybody, for every family.

418

:

Scott: Yeah.

419

:

I mean, just to testify, if you look

at our kids, they're, , young adults

420

:

basically, and they have conversations

with us and their friends look at

421

:

them and say you, you tell your

mom, what you tell your dad, what?

422

:

And that, that connection you're

talking about will last forever, right?

423

:

Who's going to spend the most time

with your, who's spending the most.

424

:

The thing is on my mind is you're

saying that is who is your child

425

:

spending the most awake hours with?

426

:

And when you're, when you're

schooling, you're there, they're

427

:

learning in the car, they're learning

in the kitchen, they're learning.

428

:

They're learning all the time and

you're talking to them all the time.

429

:

And I think the, not just whatever the

academic thing is that you, that you

430

:

gained from that, but man, you gain

this, this much deeper relationship.

431

:

So yeah, maybe, maybe our, our daughter

will have to forgive you for whatever

432

:

you tested out on her, whatever

madness you got into on the other hand.

433

:

You can talk to her every day and even

though she's at college and that's a

434

:

pretty amazing relationship that if you're

looking long term and you're thinking

435

:

about homeschooling the question I would

ask is what what kind of relationship

436

:

do you want to have when your kids are

adults and who's gonna spend the most time

437

:

influencing their their way of thinking

think about the opportunity you have right

438

:

now To commit to being able to be the

one that they spend the most time with.

439

:

And I'm just thinking about all the

conversations we've had with the

440

:

kids and they, their peers are not

having those same conversations.

441

:

With whatever life things are dealing

with, with with their parents, or maybe

442

:

they are, but I think it's the exception.

443

:

Tali: Yeah, that's what we have heard.

444

:

When they graduated homeschooling and

they went out to programs where they were

445

:

the exception, as in all of their peers

were either public school or private

446

:

schools and they just, , share stories

about their personal life and families.

447

:

They were all shocked that our kids talk

to us every day and tell us everything

448

:

and they tell each other everything,

, our girls would tell them the boys

449

:

stuff and ask each other opinions.

450

:

And apparently, we just took

that for granted that that's

451

:

just the way families work.

452

:

But apparently for a lot of children

out there, they feel so alone that

453

:

they don't talk to their siblings

and they don't talk to their parents.

454

:

I mean, I feel like that's the best

reward for homeschooling out of

455

:

every other thing that we talk about.

456

:

That's the most precious part of this.

457

:

Scott: Yeah.

458

:

Pretty, pretty amazing,

pretty amazing gift there.

459

:

So any, anything else

that you, well, I was

460

:

Tali: going to say this, I was

thinking about something when you

461

:

were talking about who, who do

your kids spend the most time with.

462

:

And I think.

463

:

All parents who spend time and

attention and give their kids

464

:

attention, realize something very,

very quickly, which is the incredible

465

:

power they have to shape how the child

looks at the world and themselves.

466

:

That was something that was so surprising

to me when the kids were younger.

467

:

I didn't realize the amount

of power we had over that.

468

:

And Of course, with that power

comes great responsibility.

469

:

So you better make sure that yourself

is, you yourself are standing in

470

:

a very healthy place looking out,

. This is a, this is a definitely

471

:

a learn as you go kind of thing.

472

:

And again, I want to go back to

the notion that this is not a you

473

:

have to figure everything out right

now in order to do a right thing.

474

:

You're going to have to adjust yourself.

475

:

All the time, in addition to adjusting

your approach with your kids.

476

:

It's a lot of evaluation, like

introspective evaluation discussions,

477

:

probably with your spouse experimenting

and it's a back and forth process.

478

:

Scott: Yeah.

479

:

I'm just thinking of several stories.

480

:

I'm wondering, maybe this is Bitcoin

homeschooling, anything that we can

481

:

connect with a Bitcoin story related to

that and how we talk to the kids about.

482

:

About that, even though they're done

with, they're done with high school,

483

:

.

Tali: In terms of going back and forth to like learning

484

:

Scott: as we go?

485

:

Well there, there are frameworks.

486

:

Yeah, sorry to talk over you said,

you, you, you mentioned we have the

487

:

opportunity when you're homeschooling to

help shape how they view the, the world.

488

:

And I think our kids have been pretty

good about becoming critical thinkers.

489

:

And even challenging us.

490

:

And I'm thinking about what's happened

over the last three years as we've gone

491

:

deeper and deeper into, into Bitcoin.

492

:

And even though the formal

years of schooling are over,

493

:

like you and I haven't stopped.

494

:

We're still, we're still in that

teaching mode and the dynamics are a

495

:

little bit different, but I think it's

been interesting to listen to the kids

496

:

frameworks as they ask us questions or

give us their points of view on what,

497

:

You and I are doing as we're learning

about Bitcoin and we're excited about it.

498

:

We're trying to teach them and I'm

just trying to connect the dots

499

:

between what you said about being

able to influence their framework.

500

:

And then money in

particular and, and Bitcoin.

501

:

Okay,

502

:

Tali: so I just thought of something.

503

:

So if you've ever seen a competition

of Tai Chi hand, what's it called?

504

:

Hand combat, Tai Chi hand combat.

505

:

And they, if you've ever seen, not seen

them, , look it up on YouTube, but it'd

506

:

be two opponents with your arms up and

they're basically just pushing each other

507

:

They're their stances firm and they're

pushing each other back and forth and

508

:

you're feeling out each other's strengths

and weaknesses and Point of attack

509

:

and , like retreat points things like

that And so the reason I think of that

510

:

is as the kids grow up, when they were

little you can just almost one way tell

511

:

them what to do and then as they mature

and You necessarily should have retreat

512

:

moments and advanced moments and retreat

in advance because you got to you got to

513

:

balance their willingness and ability to

critically think and make their decisions

514

:

and you kind of give them feedback that

kind of thing and as Get they get even

515

:

older than that like our kids early

adulthood You you can't use the same

516

:

approach that you used when they were five

Or even 10 or even 12, they're, you know,

517

:

18, 20, 21, and then we have a 16 year

old, but we have to change our approach.

518

:

So if we go to them and go, Hey, these

are the books on Bitcoin you must read.

519

:

And I'm your parent, you need to

listen to me, and go listen to these

520

:

podcasts episodes, then that direct

approach in that one sided approach,

521

:

We'll produce the opposite results.

522

:

So we have to be more tactful

now, more diplomatic, and we have

523

:

to watch for the right timing.

524

:

We have to be flexible about how we

bring information to their attention.

525

:

So that's sort of that the Tai Chi

approach that I, I kind of see in my head.

526

:

We have

527

:

Scott: to be, well, I mean,

it makes us have to be better.

528

:

Right.

529

:

If you, if you are able to just

force your way, you, you don't have

530

:

to be good if you're, you know, you

have a monopoly over the discussion.

531

:

You, you don't have to be good.

532

:

It forces us to, to go deeper on

the subjects, to, to have better

533

:

logic, to be able to hold our own

in a, in a conversation about why

534

:

they should, they should look at it.

535

:

So,

536

:

Tali: yeah.

537

:

But also be patient enough

to wait for the right timing.

538

:

Scott: Agreed.

539

:

I agree.

540

:

Yeah.

541

:

That's all I have to say.

542

:

Really?

543

:

Okay.

544

:

For now.

545

:

I'm recording.

546

:

I'm going to replay that part right there.

547

:

All right.

548

:

So one of the things that I wanted

to just get out today is this.

549

:

It's something that's already out there,

but one of the things that I think would

550

:

help listeners in terms of understanding.

551

:

My thought process that led up to this

podcast , and that is that after we went

552

:

to the homeschooling conventions and not

being able to, convince people that have,

553

:

they, they, they're, they literally, I

literally thought these are people who are

554

:

big corners and just don't know it yet.

555

:

So.

556

:

So instead of just going through

all the points again, I, I, I do

557

:

have pinned on my Twitter an article

titled that homeschoolers are

558

:

Bitcoiners who don't know it yet.

559

:

If you're new to hearing some of the stuff

that Tali and I are talking about now,

560

:

these are some of the topics, not all of

them, but some of these topics have come

561

:

up on panels and other podcasts, but So

if you are new to homeschooling or just

562

:

new to hearing some of our points of

view on it, I would really recommend that

563

:

you could check out the, that article.

564

:

We'll also put the links in the

show notes for that we're, we're

565

:

just starting this obviously.

566

:

So right now this is an audio version.

567

:

We're going to have video later,

but we will certainly have show

568

:

notes starting from the beginning.

569

:

All right, Tal, how about you?

570

:

Anything?

571

:

I tell you one thing, if I could, that

I thought for today would be, would

572

:

be interesting for people because it's

come up, I literally think it's come up

573

:

in every panel and podcast so far, and

that is recommended resources to start.

574

:

Tali: Okay, so on free market kids

towards the bottom of the page, there is

575

:

a link that says I want to homeschool.

576

:

And if you go there, it gives you

some outline of curriculums out there.

577

:

but also the state by state legal

requirements for homeschooling.

578

:

But I just want to say that you don't

have to worry about any of those things

579

:

until your child is five or six at least.

580

:

Well, in terms of the legal requirement,

definitely not before the age of six.

581

:

And honestly, in terms

of curriculum, I don't.

582

:

I don't necessarily think you

need to worry about that either

583

:

until they're five or six.

584

:

In the beginning, really all you have to

focus on is having fun with your kids,

585

:

observing your kids to start gathering

information about their specific learning

586

:

style, making sure that your relationship

is healthy , you need to have enough

587

:

authority with your child that if you

tell your child to do something he doesn't

588

:

like, he will do it because you said so.

589

:

That's probably the biggest reason

some homeschoolers end up quitting

590

:

and sending their kids back to school

is because they can't get their kids

591

:

to do what they want them to do.

592

:

So the power play, again, I hate

using the word power, but that's.

593

:

I, the best word I can think of

to describe it, you need, when the

594

:

kids are little, especially, and you

have so much influence over how your

595

:

relationship is or becomes, that's

really the most important thing to

596

:

get right before you start thinking

about teaching them numbers and ABCs.

597

:

Scott: All right.

598

:

Is there anything else that you would

like to get out on our first podcast?

599

:

Tali: That's, that's basically the

most important thing for anybody

600

:

who's thinking about homeschooling

is don't ask those questions yet.

601

:

Scott: Okay.

602

:

All right.

603

:

Well,

604

:

I want to express our gratitude

for everybody who's putting the

605

:

hard work or committing to put

the hard work in the future.

606

:

That level of commitment to self

custody of your education, your

607

:

kid's education is just tremendous.

608

:

And again, in the show notes, we will

have links to anything that we've talked

609

:

about.

610

:

Tali: Can I add something?

611

:

It's just something just

popped into my head.

612

:

I'm just going to reword what I said

before, which is the art of parenting is

613

:

what needs to be focused on first, which

is why in this podcast, I'm going to

614

:

stress a lot about sharing parenting tips

because I, I feel that their natural

615

:

instinct and desire is to be great.

616

:

And they're going to look for ways to

learn because that's a very natural

617

:

human desire is to grow themselves.

618

:

And in order to grow, they must learn.

619

:

So I don't feel that we necessarily have

to push very hard for kids to do well.

620

:

But the parenting balance has to be right.

621

:

Scott: Yeah, I don't want

to scare anyone either.

622

:

These are all important things.

623

:

If I were not homeschooling yet and

I just listened to, to man, I got

624

:

to figure it out the art parenting,

and I gotta figure out this, and

625

:

I gotta figure out like that.

626

:

I think we run the risk of overwhelming

people and the most important thing, I

627

:

mean, it's okay for us to disagree folks,

by the way, like Tali and I are both

628

:

committed to the same cause, but we have,

we do have different points of view and I

629

:

actually think that's a, that's a feature,

not a bug in our , in our parenting.

630

:

The takeaway is worth it in the long run.

631

:

This is worth it for your kids.

632

:

This is just, it is worth it for society.

633

:

It is just worth it.

634

:

And yes, there's going to

be a lot of things you don't

635

:

know, but it's, it's worth it.

636

:

And if you commit to it and you

have the courage to follow through,

637

:

you will gain those capabilities,

whatever those capabilities may

638

:

be that you don't have today.

639

:

That's what leads to confidence

when you look back and say I

640

:

did that, or the kids did that.

641

:

I, I just want to leave people with, it

is worth it and just take the first step.

642

:

, just start and, everything that

we're talking about, these are

643

:

all things you can get into.

644

:

You don't have to do any of them.

645

:

You don't have to do all of them.

646

:

You can do whatever you

want, but just start.

647

:

Just take that first step and commit

and then the rest will follow.

648

:

I want to somehow work that into this.

649

:

Reassure people that no matter

how deep we go on any subject,

650

:

don't be intimidated by it.

651

:

It's, something you're going to have

your own things that you're wanting.

652

:

You're going to want to go deep on anyway.

653

:

So anyway,

654

:

Tali: I agree with that.

655

:

I agree with that.

656

:

Sorry if I sound too intense but

this is a literally put one foot in

657

:

front of the other baby step process

658

:

.

Scott: Right.

659

:

Everybody heard it.

660

:

Tali and I agree on, this.

661

:

This is, this is good.

662

:

All right.

663

:

Best way that we can serve you

though, is if you let us know

664

:

what you're, looking for.

665

:

So we don't care if it's email,

DM, Nostra, orange pill app,

666

:

telegram, whatever your method is.

667

:

We want to be available.

668

:

Let us know your questions.

669

:

Let us know people you'd

like us to interview.

670

:

Let us know what kind

of resources you want.

671

:

We're looking forward to continuing

our journey and giving back.

672

:

And honestly, we're still

learning along the way.

673

:

Tali, what do you think?

674

:

Anything else here?

675

:

Tali: Nope.

676

:

I'm good.

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About the Podcast

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Bitcoin Homeschoolers
Self-Custody Education

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About your hosts

Profile picture for Tali Lindberg

Tali Lindberg

Hey there, wonderful listeners! I'm Tali, and I'm so excited to welcome you to our podcast today. For two decades, I was knee-deep in the incredible journey of homeschooling my four amazing kids. It was a world of boundless creativity, filled with lesson plans, school projects, sports, and beautiful chaos. But when my children all graduated, a brand-new, unforeseen adventure awaited me - the captivating world of Bitcoin.

It took three years for Scott to bring me into Bitcoin. I hesitated at first, Bitcoin's intricacies seemed daunting, and my plate was already quite full. But he persisted, going so far as to create a fantastic bitcoin-mining board game called HODL UP to demystify it all. Before I knew it, I was down the Bitcoin rabbit hole. Just like my homeschooling journey, I took it one step at a time, learning and evolving as I ventured further.

Now, here we are today, and I couldn't be more thrilled to be part of the vibrant Bitcoin community. In an unexpected twist, my husband Scott and I realized that our homeschooling experiences can be a treasure trove of insights for Bitcoiners who, like us, want to take charge of their children's education. So, in addition to sharing our Bitcoin knowledge with Precoiners with HODL UP and the Orange Hatter podcast, we're here to offer tips and guidance for Bitcoin-homeschoolers. It's going to be an incredible journey, and I can't wait to share it with all of you. Enjoy the ride!
Profile picture for Scott Lindberg

Scott Lindberg

Scott Lindberg is a freedom-loving entrepreneur, author, and game designer. He is a proponent of finding freedom by taking self-custody of education, money and speech.

He and his wife, Tali, co-founded Free Market Kids. Their passion is to give the next generation the knowledge and tools to maximize their chances for freedom, success and happiness. Free Market Kids makes it easy and fun to introduce money concepts to kids through tabletop games, courses, lesson plans and trusted resources. They are best known for HODL UP™, a Bitcoin mining game.

Scott graduated from the United States Military Academy at West Point in 1993 with a Bachelor of Science in Systems Engineering. In 2001, he graduated Yale’s School of Management with a Master of Business Administration.